xorg + *box strange problems!

t9k · Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 4:10 pm Post subject: xorg + *box strange problems!

I reluctantly did the migration from xfree to xorg. Following bits-and-pieces from several how-tos...

http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Switch_from_XFree_to_Xorg
https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?t=158911
http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Xorg_and_Fonts

I am using development-sources-2.6.10, and the blackbox WM.

Here is what's supposed to happen according to my .xinitrc

jakamaka · Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 4:14 pm Post subject:

what's output of your xorg startup ? if you do ctrl-alt-backspace you can maybe see what's wrong.
_________________
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t9k · Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:13 am Post subject:

Xorg.0.log reads (only put in segments that show a warning or failure)

t9k · Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:35 pm Post subject:

After many hours of troubleshooting I'm giving up on xorg-x11. I've tried several window managers and all at some point or another freeze my system and I have to hardboot.

For example, I ran, TWM. What better way to isolate the problem than to run a simple WM right? I get the _pretty_ xterm windows, everything seemed stable, no freezing. Then I ran midnight commander. The screen changed to some crap and froze.

This particular system is my server. It houses my apache server, qmail MTA, qnump3d server, teamspeak-server, and many other server specific programs. It's not a desktop. So do I need X? Well, it makes things alot easier, but it's not necessary. I can telnet over and exec commands, or nfs and ftp files back and forth with the term if needed.

I'm really disappointed in what's come out of the xfree86 ordeal. I'm not sure who to blame considering I don't know the whole story. But I do know that I'm not as big a fan of Gentoo because of it.

In fact, I have a spare PC that I previously intended to be a gentoo desktop. Instead I installed FreeBSD. Don't get me wrong, I dig the whole bleeding edge aspect of gentoo. And I still have 3 boxes running it. But DAMN, stability is a good thing too.

t9k · Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:01 pm Post subject:

For the record here's my xorg.conf.

maguire · Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:40 pm Post subject: BlackBox + XOrg = *HEADACHE*

All I can say is: ME TOO! :cry:

I'm not having the same problems, but I'm having different---less serious---problems that are nonetheless frustrating! I run a stable Gentoo workstation that needs to be up. When I saw that an update was going to replace XFree with Xorg, the only thing I could think was "uh oh!". That update happened many days ago, and I've been afraid to restart X since then... Well, unfortunately, I braced myself, and restarted X.

First problem: Why aren't bbappconf and bbkeys working? All my apps open on the first desktop---indicating that bbappconf is not working. Also, I cannot use any of the keyboard shortcuts that I made for switching desktops and cycling through windows!

Isn't there anyone else out there that uses BalckBox with bbappconf and bbkeys? When I came to Gentoo from RH, I decided to switch to a WM from KDE, because I was not using 99% of the KDE functionality. I really only needed a multiple-desktop WM with good keyboard-shortcut capability, so that I can easily switch workspaces and windows without resorting to the mouse. After much research, BlackBox seemed to be a good choice, and I do most of my work in either an Aterm (with some nice eye-candy transparency) or GVIM. Once I figured-out how to use bbappconf to get my apps to load in different workspaces when I start X, and bbkeys to assign a few shortcuts, I was set. Now, I'm afraid my long string of comfortable stability---read productivity---has abruptly ended! I, too, know that Gentoo is not for people who need their hand held, but I also know that I really appreciated Daniel Robbins' statement that Gentoo was about "letting the user get their work done" and not hindering the user! This switch to Xorg may be the right thing to do, but it would have been nice to have had it done without bringing-down at least some of the users that appreciate their stable, productive Gentoo environments. Was there testing done on boxes with various WMs before cutting-in Xorg? Maybe I missed a big string of discussion, but since I spent so long getting my workstation environment comfortable under XFree, I'm disappointed to be thrown back into system-configuration mode when I need to get some work done!

Is Xorg really the only way to go?

Any help from the pros out there? Any pointers to appropriate documentation?

Thanks,
Bruce.

maguire · Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:50 pm Post subject: Partially solved...

OK... I exited X and restarted xfs. When I restarted X, it appears that bbkeys is working. bbappconf still appears to not be, because all my apps open on the first workspace.

Also, my nice transparent Aterm now has quite-ugly non-transparent scrollbars. I know that sounds pretty petty, but those big, gray scrollbars really look hideous on a nice, dark blue desktop (with a 50%-shaded Aterm connected).

Lastly, it looks like I have a bit of font work to do, since all the font sizes are different than before...

Any advice is appreciated!

Thanks,
Bruce.

maguire · Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:03 pm Post subject:

OK... Generally feeling really foolish here...!

For some reason, my Aterm scrollbars were transparent before, even though I did not have the "-trsb" option on the command line in my ".xinitrc". Adding that option makes them look like they are supposed to... :oops:

At least right now, it seems that there is *one* remaining issue: bbappconf. This app is important to me, because I really want some apps to open maximized (like GVim), and it is much nicer to have all the apps automatically move to their instructed workspaces upon starting X. bbappconf was handling these for me, and working great under XFree.

Any suggestions? (And this time I hope not to be the first to answer my own dumb questions!) :oops:

Thanks,
Bruce.

t9k · Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:30 pm Post subject:

Wow! I'm glad you posted maguire, because you said something that makes me think the problem is in a totally different area. I first thought the problem was between *box and xorg.

t9k · Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 7:41 pm Post subject:

Looks like you are on your way to solving your own problem, LOL. Usually the way it works...

<trying to offer some help>You said

maguire · Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 4:30 pm Post subject:

t9k:

Yes, I printed-out the "Xorg and fonts" HowTo, and was just looking at 'emerge'ing all the suggested font packages. Thanks for the tip! Good luck with your video card---I hope the fixes work for you! IMO, nothing is more depressing than having hardware-incompatibility issues; I guess because I'm totally helpless in the case of driver problems!

On a related subject, I'd like to say that the font situation in Linux is a nightmare! The more I read the more I find-out there is to know, and the more confused I get! Not the least of which is the subject of font servers! When I was setting-up my new Gentoo workstation environment, I thought "why do I need a font server? I don't need to serve fonts to any clients?" Then I read the Gentoo Desktop Guide, which "strongly suggests" installing XFS---but doesn't really say why (it may say something vague, like "it is better")! I love Gentoo, because---unlike the RH that I used as a Linux newbie---I know that there is no junk installed or memory-resident that I don't need. I install everything from scratch---and nothing I don't need. Therefore, the XFS thing has bothered me for a while because I'll see posts from people who say "I don't use XFS", and I wonder "if they can get away without XFS, do I really need it? Is it just taking-up space and hogging resources?" On the other hand, I don't really have the time to do the experimentation, and possibly hose my system; my box is "mission-critical" for me (I guess I need to set-up a second Gentoo system that I can use for experimentation!).

Anyway, back to the subject of the font mess; between:

font-server/no-font-server (or which one!)

BCI/no-BCI/auto-hinter (aka hinting/no-hinting/different-hinting)

AA/no-AA

sub-pixel-rendering/no-sub-pixel-rendering (I use an LCD monitor, and therefore this is evidently a consideration)

automatic/manual-DPI settings (mine is automatically set somehow at 85x86---for a 1280x1024 19" LCD---but I've read many times of people recommending that this be manually-set to 96)

balanced-unbalanced DPI settings (I've never had any problems, but now I read that "unbalanced DPI can cause havoc with fonts")

and the umpteen config-file locations for setting font paths for XFree/Xorg, fontservers, fontconfig (I still don't know what that is!)

It's enough to bring the average Linux user to their knees!

Bruce.