Which 5.1 card to buy

Genito · n00b Joined: 26 Jul 2002 Posts: 34

Hi guys,

Basically ive got onboard 5.1 via a C-media 3738 chip. It works ( just about ok ) in windows, but the sound quality isnt that great and only 4 speakers work in linux.

I got a bit of cash so i thought id get either the SB live 5.1 ( for £25 ) or the audigy ( for £50 ).

I know there isnt much different in price as they are both OEM, but i wanted to know which had the best support under linux ( all i really want is all the speakers and sub to work! )
And which sounds the best etc. I believe the audgiy support is experimental, and i know there is good suport for the live 5.1, but wanted some posts from people that acutally use these cards!?

Any help would be totally much appreciated

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masseya · Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2002 3:12 pm Post subject:

I haven't used the Audigy card, but I can coush for the sound quality of the sb live 5.1 under linux. It's great!
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Kawada · Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:57 pm Post subject:

I'm pleased with my SB Live! 5.1, except that I can't figure out how to get the center speaker to work with alsa. Don't know what to tell you about the Audigy, no experience with it.

Kawada

mglauche · Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2002 6:20 am Post subject:

i got a sb live, sound quality is fine, but i never get anything close to 5.1 working

most of the time only front speakers, never Dolby digital ..

So i must say i'm thinking of an audigy

Craigo · Posted: Mon Aug 26, 2002 10:14 am Post subject:

Hey I have got a onboard 5.1 C-media 8738 and it is just fine over here. Though I was going to get a soundblaster pci card but this onboard sound is just good enough to save myself the cash

However, I'm thinking of building a new system in the near future and I would recommend to get SoundBlaster Live 5.1. It is decent pricing (around £25 here in the UK).

The problem is affording some decent 5.1 speakers.......

-/Craigo/-

Genito · n00b Joined: 26 Jul 2002 Posts: 34

My main concern is getting all the speakers to work. I really want to be able to use the sub and center speakers for sound, movies and games.

I dont mind which card i buy, creative or other wise, i just want the speakers to all work!..

So if anyone with fully working 5.1 could let me know what card they have and how hard it was to set up i'll buy them a beer

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nitro322 · Guru Joined: 24 Jul 2002 Posts: 594 Location: USA

I have a Live! 5.1, and it works great. 5.1 is fully supported (for everything I've tried, anyway), using the drivers available from http://sourceforge.net/projects/emu10k1, and pretty easy to setup, too. This is not ALSA, in case that really matters to anyone, but they work far better than anything I've been able to get ALSA to do for me.

Now, I should add that I've never tested analog out under Linux, as I use Creative's Digital DIN connection with my Cambridge Soundworks DTT 3500 speakers. spdif bypass works, so I get 5.1 with DVDs, but I haven't done any gaming under Linux in quite awhile and don't know how well that's supported. I also let my speakers do the upmixing to 5.1 when listening to stereo music, so I can't vouch for that either, although I'm sure it can be done. Hope this helps.

Genito · n00b Joined: 26 Jul 2002 Posts: 34

That does help quite a bit m8 yeah, i wish i thought about getting speakers with a digital in when i bought them, i only really thought about using the analouge.

Besides forking out for a digital amp or somthing, im stuck.

I really would get any sound card if i knew it would work in analouge, its just searching through all of the notes for them on alsa and other pages to try and find one that supports all the channels.

I noticed that in the kernel ive set the speaker number to 6, but only 4 work? and on the docs it only sais supports 4...

Many thanks mate, any others?
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TuxFriend · Apprentice Joined: 14 Aug 2002 Posts: 151

I have an audigy and sblive and tried the following:
- emerged the alsa-driver and alsa-library(rc2) but I wasn't able to get real 5.1. All the speakers worked but the sound wasn't correclty separated both on the audigy and sblive.
- removed the alsa-driver and alsa-library, put a "-alsa" in my USE-flag, activated the OSS-driver and recompiled the system. Both cards now do real 5.1 (all channels are separated correctly). I have tested analog and digital output, both produced real 5.1

If you want more information please let me know.

TuxFriend

Genito · n00b Joined: 26 Jul 2002 Posts: 34

Thats great Tux friend, can i just check a few things before i go out and buy a SB live..

1. You tested it using the Analouge output, i.e 3 Cables going from the card to the amp ( front stereo, rear stereo and center/sub)

2. Which Live card it was exactly, SB live 5.1 OEM, x gamer etc

3. What options did you have in your kernel? just sound card support or support for the card as well.

4. Do all the speakers work correctly in apps like XMMS and other sound apps, as well as the 5.1 surround working for DVDs and the such?

5. What mixer were you using and what were you using to test for the real 5.1?

6. What were the basic steps to get it working, just compile the kernel with sthe live support, add -alsa to the USE flags and emerge alsa?

Sorry if sound like a newbie, but ive never had a decdent speaker setup till now!

Really appreciate it m8, if this card will work with my analouge speakers ill be so happy.

Many thanks
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Kawada · Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2002 12:19 am Post subject:

I second that request. If you do have 5.1 working through the analog outputs on the SBLive!, I would also like to know the steps you did, particularly what your emu10k1.conf and emu-script look like.
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Kawada

2002 Nethack Tournament -- 317th runner-up http://nethack.devnull.net/

dr_strange · Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2002 8:32 am Post subject:

speaking about 5.1 cards, could anybody please tell me if on a fm801 based card the rear spekaers are usable? or maybe 5.1? and if so, what do I have to set? in amixer I did not find any clue

thanks a lot

TuxFriend · Apprentice Joined: 14 Aug 2002 Posts: 151

You need to have a system WITHOUT alsa.
If you need to install Gentoo it's easy just put USE="-alsa" in your /etc/make.conf and DON'T emerge alsa.
If you already have a running system and installed it exactly like the installation manual proposed you need to do some work to get your system completely alsa-free:
- put USE="-alsa" in your /etc/make.conf
- emerge -C alsa-lib alsa-oss xmms-aalsa alsa-driver alsa-tools alsa-utils alsa-xmms alsamixergui alsaplayer wmmixer-alsa
- emerge gentoolkit

- goto /usr/bin
1- grep libasound * -d recurse (this will return a list of files that are compiled against the alsa-library)
2- qpkg -f <directoryname>/<filename> (this will return the name of the ebuild that need to be re-emerged)
3- emerge <name of ebuild>
4- repeat step 1 to 3 until step 1 doesn't return any files anymore

repeat the steps above for /usr/lib and /usr/share

Now that you have a alsa-free system, you are ready for the next step:

for the sblive:
- download the 2 files (emu-tools-0.9.4.tar.gz and emu10k1-v0.19a.tar.bz2) from http://sourceforge.net/projects/emu10k1 (there is an ebuild made for it but it hasn't been added to Portage yet but you can try this also see https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5995)
- in both files is an installation manual which explains to you how to install it.

for the audigy:
- emerge emu10k1-audigy

for both soundcards:
- put emu10k1 in the /etc/modules.autoload
- modify emu10k1.conf:
CARD_IS_5_1=yes
ENABLE_TONE_CONTROL=yes

There you go!!!

Answer to you questions:
1. yep but it's possible to test it with a simple speaker set
2. AFAIK the only difference between those is the software that comes with it, my suggestion is you buy the cheapest version as possible because the software is for Windows.
3. CONFIG_SOUND and CONFIG_SOUND_OSS are both active in my kernel
4. yep
5. I don't use a mixer on my computer, I'm using my stereo-mixer; real 5.1 has six seperated channels to test it emerge xine, play a DVD and:
- plug a speakerset in the center/subwoofer output and you will get a lot of bass and you can hear the voices.
- plug a speakerset in the front left/right output and you will get the foreground sound (e.g. banging on a door, shooting, etc.)
- plug a speakerset in the rear left/right output and you will get the background sound (e.g. flying bullets, plane flying over your head, etc.)
If these sounds are not separated (e.g. you can hear voices clearly on front and/or rear output) the DVD isn't 5.1-compliant or your setup isn't correct.
6. see above

answer to Kawada: see above

I hope that this will get the show on the road and again if you have more questions please let me know.

Kawada · Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2002 10:13 pm Post subject:

One more question then, TuxFriend. Did you not use the emu-script at all then? I did all the stuff with copying that to /usr/local/etc and adding the "post-install emu10k1 /usr/local/etc/emu-script" line to modules.conf and ran into trouble getting the center channel to work. So should I not be doing that?

Thanks
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2002 Nethack Tournament -- 317th runner-up http://nethack.devnull.net/

TuxFriend · Apprentice Joined: 14 Aug 2002 Posts: 151

With a sblive:
Sorry forgot to mention it (the sblive-installation was a long time ago). The "post-install emu10k1" needs to be in modules.conf or else the emu10k1.conf isn't activated (don't put it in there directly but create a file in /etc/modules.d and run update-modules).

With an audigy:
emerge emu10k1-audigy (this creates a file /etc/modules.d so you don't have to do anything, just edit /etc/audigy/emu10k1.conf)

What kind of trouble do you have with your center speaker? Do you hear any voices? Are you positive you DON'T have any alsa-stuff left? Is the subwoofer functioning? Do you have REAL 5.1 on the other speakers? Is there something in the kernel active that has to do something with sound (except the two settings I mentioned)? Do you see any relevant messages?

TuxFriend

Kawada · Posted: Fri Aug 30, 2002 11:38 pm Post subject:

Kawada · Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2002 12:32 am Post subject:

Okay, I think I found my probelm. I had the surround and prologic options enabled in emu10k1.conf. Once I disabled these, the center speaker appears to work. I also figured out that the volume control for the center channel is labeled "mix" in aumix. Thanks for all of your help.

So yes Genito, I would now heartily recommend the SBLive! 5.1. The 5.1 audio works fine through analog. :lol:

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Kawada

2002 Nethack Tournament -- 317th runner-up http://nethack.devnull.net/

notext · n00b Joined: 29 Aug 2002 Posts: 8

Out of curiosity, is there even a project going on that is working towards getting the live drive / remote center working?

My guess is no, I figure creative is pretty stingy with giving out information on those items.

TuxFriend · Apprentice Joined: 14 Aug 2002 Posts: 151

TuxFriend · Apprentice Joined: 14 Aug 2002 Posts: 151

Ard Righ · Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2002 4:56 pm Post subject:

Hey, something I can actually give a useful reply to

Check out http://rooster.stanford.edu/~ben/projects/rcenter.php for the Creative RM-900 remote control package. I haven't tried this so far myself, but it is at least a start

Genito · n00b Joined: 26 Jul 2002 Posts: 34

Thank you all so much for your replys, ive just ordered a SB live 5.1 OEM card!

Cant wait to get it working, at last i can use my sub!

Ill definately post and let you all know how i got on, hopefully alsa wont be to much of a pain to remove.

Once again, many thanks guys

Gent
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mglauche · Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2002 1:35 pm Post subject:

<dumb mode>
are there hardware differences between sb live! and sb live! 5.1 ? (my sb live! has sbdif out)
</dumb mode>

Kawada · Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2002 8:45 pm Post subject:

mglauche · Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2002 7:31 am Post subject:

hmm, so it *SHOULD* be possible to have 5.1 sound with a sb live! and a dtt 2500 digital speaker set ...

seems my dtt is broken ... I did get it working once, very long time ago with win9*, but never again ...