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EnsignRicki
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 6:38 am    Post subject: Best graphical IMAP client Reply with quote

Can anyone recommend a good graphical IMAP client? I know there are quite a few out there and most are quite good. However there is one particular feature I am looking for that none of them seem to have.

In my IMAP account I have setup server side filters to filter incoming e-mail into various folders on the IMAP server. Now in Outlook Express in MS Windows when I start the program or click the Get New Mail button it checks every single subfolder on the IMAP server for new mail. I have yet to find a linux client that does this. The ones I've seen check the "Inbox" only and not any of the other subfolders. Of course if I click in any given subfolder it will show me the new messages. But when you have 20+ subfolders it's a nifty little feature to be able to press one button and immediately see if you have any new mail in any one of the subfolders.
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tecknojunky
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't quite understand your feature. Check Evolution. It seem to be some kind of clone of MS Outlook and, as such, my have that feature your looking for (altougt i'm not sure).
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green sun
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 12:47 pm    Post subject: Checking IMAP Folders Reply with quote

I believe Evolution does this.

There is also an option in Mozilla Mail to do this (not running it ATM, but I remember it being there). Personally I didn't like MozMail because it didnt handle multiple accounts well. Evolution seems to handle having multiple accounts (IMAP to somewhere, POP to somewhere else, etc...)
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EnsignRicki
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. Do you know of anything other than Evolution?
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foxcub
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can personally recommend KMail. I use it in the same setting as you described (mail filtered into folders on server-side), and it works like a charm. When you do "Check New Mail", it checks all the subfolders.
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474
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. Sylpheed or even better, Sylpheed-Claws. Lightweight, free of cruft and bloat, superfast, flexible and powerful. Uses gtk1. Masked ebuild (0.8.5) seems very stable to me:
Code:
ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="~x86" emerge sylpheed-claws

You can give it a nicer icon theme with:
Code:
emerge sylpheed-iconset

then use them from Configuration > Common Preferences > Interface. Get yourself a nice gtk1 theme and it will look fairly spiffy (I use Bluecurve, with the New_Session icon theme).

Recognises these USE flags: "pda ssl ldap crypt gnome imlib spell xface gtkhtml". If you specify "gtkhtml" it will have support for rendering HTML content with the (also fast and lightweight) Dillo browser engine, but the program favours plain-text and never displays HTML by default.

I believe Kmail can also check IMAP subfolders. Hmm, I just noticed that foxcub made a post about Kmail so I won't offend anyone by saying what I really think of it as a program (hint: it works, but I'm not keen on it) ... heheh.

Mozilla Mail can too.

Just remember that the ability to check IMAP subfolders may also require server-side support. This is the case for courier-imap servers for example.
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foxcub
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't worry about offending me... even though, I really like KMail for a number of reasons, I won't get offended. So, please, tell us what's wrong with KMail that isn't wrong with other email clients?
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474
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Don't worry about offending me...

:lol: I wasn't! No seriously, Kmail is OK and I'm not insulting the program or its developers. Nor do I want to go off-topic or instigate a holy war, but seeing as you asked:

<personal opinion>
... first and foremost I'm a gtk and Gnome fan so that probably explains a lot. Secondly, having to emerge kdebase, kdelibs et al just for Kmail irritates me (the KDE ebuilds could do with some USE flags to cut out the crap you don't want, IMO). Thirdly, Qt (regardless of how good a framework and a toolkit it may be) is, IMHO, bloated. KDE apps consume huge amounts of memory, due in part to DCOP being a pre-requisite to run anything (but I'm compiling kde-3.1 as I speak so I'm interested to see how that bears out). I don't want to waste loads of resources just to run an email client. But getting onto Kmail itself, I just think it looks tacky (as do many KDE apps to me). It doesn't grab me and it really isn't that outstanding in terms of its feature set. I may as well run Evolution and get all the features and then some - plus elegance of UI design. Even a heavyweight like Evolution performs better.
</personal opinion>

It's slower on IMAP network performance than Sylpheed (and Evolution) and Sylpheed runs rings around it in almost every other area of performance. Kmail was actually not fast enough for me (I have a pretty large mailbox served from my local courier-imap server), nor did it "feel" responsive enough.

However, it's only fair to say that I'm judging 3.05a here so I will see what 3.1 has to offer.
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foxcub
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
... first and foremost I'm a gtk and Gnome fan so that probably explains a lot


It truly does... :D Actually, you description of what's wrong with KMail and right with Evloution (haven't seen sylpheed) is the exact reverse for me. What I can add though in KMail's defense (and for me this is what makes it or breaks it) is that it works perfectly with various encodings (for me for the email client to be able to see Cyrillic in all encodings is a must). Evolution I couldn't get to show Cyrillic in anything... I didn't try hard enough, but actually my whole impression of Gnome is that it's not "interantionally-friendly", and definitely nowhere near KDE. But just as you, I don't want to start a holy war, so thanks for your opinion, and everything above is no more than a personal opinion.
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474
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Evolution I couldn't get to show Cyrillic in anything

That's interesting. Is there any easy way I can test this myself? Everything I deal with is just common-or-garden English.
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foxcub
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, that's the thing; to test whether you can read cyrillic in it, I can send you an email with some Russian in it. Writing is a whole different story (just as critical for me obviously); Gnome probably has something to support different keyboard layouts and encodings, but it's definitely well-hidden (as opposed to KDE :) ... I really shouldn't say this). Alternatively, you can launch evolution from KDE, switch the keyboard layout, and try to type in Cyrillic - I can be more detailed if you want to try that.
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blofeld
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can also use mozilla mail. But by default, as you might have observed, it does only check the Inbox folder.
So you have to walk one time through all folders you would like to have autmatically be checked, right-click -> Properties -> and check "Check this folder for new mail".

I've been using mozilla mail, because of it's superb handling of different multiple accounts - whats wrong about it? 8)
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asimon
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kerframil wrote:
KDE apps consume huge amounts of memory, due in part to DCOP being a pre-requisite to run anything


I wouldn't call less than 9 mega bytes 'huge' but alas, size lies in the eyes of the beholder. BTW, the dcop server is started only once, no matter how many kde apps you run, but this is off-topic here. There are mail client for every memory size.

Quote:
It doesn't grab me and it really isn't that outstanding in terms of its feature set. I may as well run Evolution and get all the features and then some


Looking at the preferences dialogs of both, kmail seems to have about 10 times more features than evolution. Where are all those evolution features? Well hidden? I dunno, but I just couldn't find them.

To decide which client to use, just try them and use what you like best. Easy. And if someone doesn't want to build kde, gnome, or whatever, well then use what you have.

Regarding the checking of IMAP subfolders for new mail, kmail and evolution both do that. At least here with the courier-imap server. Mozilla mail just crashed my X server while trying to open the mail window, so I can't say what moz mail does ;-)

Cheers,
Andreas
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474
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I've been using mozilla mail, because of it's superb handling of different multiple accounts - whats wrong about it?

Nothing much, it's a good client. But one thing stopped me from deploying it on my Windows 2K clients at work, the lack of a decent spellchecker (the free one is not good enough, it spellchecks the sender's message upon replies and forwards which is plain wrong) - something that does not afflict the other programs mentioned. Not that I need one personally ;-)

Also, I wish all of these clients would hurry up and support the IMAP IDLE extension so you wouldn't have to constantly poll your mailserver in the first place just to know a message had arrived (or that the state of any IMAP folders had changed in any way), even Outlook Express supports this RFC standard - and pretty well too :roll: .
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474
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
To decide which client to use, just try them and use what you like best. Easy.

Quite! My choice is clear.
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sarnold
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 8:20 pm    Post subject: Still looking... Reply with quote

I'm still looking for an IMAP client as good as Pegasus (so sue me, Pegasus is the still the best overall mail client I've ever used).

I run the current version of courier IMAP, and all the IMAP clients I've tried still have significant bugs and/or holes. I currently use mozilla mail sometimes, and evolution other times (evo is the only one with syncing tools for my Zaurus/Qtopia).

Even with the imap-client-workaround setting on the server, I still have way too many problems with mail clients

I haven't tried several mentioned above, so I'll have to get on that; do any support any handheld sync tools? Which is the most stable with courier IMAP? Which has the most support for the standard?
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green sun
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blofeld wrote:
I've been using mozilla mail, because of it's superb handling of different multiple accounts - whats wrong about it? 8)


Here is my *huge* beef. MozMail does not handle multiple SMTP servers.. I have never understood it... Here's my situation:

I have two accounts, an IMAP work account & an account through my broadband provider. The bband account will only allow mail to be sent from their IP range, so if Im at work with my laptop, I cant send mail through the account. In mozilla they only have you enter 1 SMTP server, so I can only send mail when at home! (If I use the work SMTP server, mail from the bband account never goes through, cause its being sent from a server outside the ip range!!)

Ok, that doesnt sound so clear, but thats my beef.. support for only one SMTP server (oh yea, and I cant seem to use MozNews to connect to an NNTP server that needs an user name & password.. 2 beefs!!)
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474
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Which is the most stable with courier IMAP? Which has the most support for the standard?

Sounds like you've had some bad experiences. Mine have been that kmail (>= 3.0.5a), sylpheed, sylpheed-claws (recent builds), evolution (recent builds) and mozilla mail (>= 1.1) are utterly stable with IMAP and courier-imap. Sylpheed has been the most stable for me (although sylpheed-claws now is now very stable). Mozilla had IMAP quirks, but they seem to have been ironed out of late. Mozilla Mail 1.2.1 works perfectly well on Unix and Windows. I experienced an issue with older versions of Mozilla Mail where it would take ages to copy an outgoing message to a "Sent" folder on an IMAP server, but that's been repaired (interestingly Netscape 7.01 hasn't caught up enough to fix that particular issue). Strangely, Kmail once stopped copying items to my server-side "Sent" folder once, restarting fixed that - think that was just one of those "one-off" things, other than that - fine. Evolution was generally OK (though I've not worked it hard yet), Sylpheed I have never had problems with whatsoever.


As far as standards compliance goes, they all do a pretty good job. I've already stated that sylpheed-claws (and evolution) seem the fastest to me but then again, consider that I haven't tested (a) the latest evolution (b) the latest kmail (c) the mail client in the latest mozilla ebuild (I disabled the mail client when I emerged) - although I will.

Annoyingly, Outlook Express is the best experience I've had so far with courier-imap simply because of the IDLE extension support. Not sure if kmail-3.1 has it yet (still emerging), and I haven't tested evolution for IDLE support either. The others definitely do not have it. I filed a bug for Sylpheed-Claws to request it, and one has been active for Mozilla Mail for some time.

Bottom line, Sylpheed has never caused a problem, Sylpheed-Claws had minor stability issues but not with recent builds, Mozilla Mail 1.2.1 has never caused a problem for me on Linux (though I had a minor issue on Windows 2000 once), I did experience stability issues once with an older evolution but that was rectified by upgrading and re-creating my profile.

That's just my mileage anyway.

Maybe you should start a new thread on the significant bugs and holes in Networking & Security? I wouldn't mind knowing what's causing such a problem.

Hmm, I just remembered there's net-mail/balsa too, haven't tried that in a looong time.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

green sun wrote:
Here is my *huge* beef. MozMail does not handle multiple SMTP servers.. I have never understood it... Here's my situation:

I don't know about the NNTP issue but Mozilla Mail does support multiple SMTP servers. In Mail & Newsgroup Account Settings click the Advanced button under Outgoing Server (SMTP). You can enter as many SMTP servers as you want there, and set one as a default.

Then to relate one to a particular IMAP/POP3 account, go to the account (i..e actually click the friendly name you've given to the account) in question, and click Advanced. Et voila.
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BillyD
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The latest releases of Evolution have seriously borked it's i18n ability, but for me that was a good thing. I was using Evolution which happily allowed me to both display and enter Japanese alongside English, but it would seem it has been broken (not just for Japanese, but all "non-standard" character sets.) So why was this good for me? It gave me the opportunity to try out Sylpheed-claws, which I am quite fond of.

Evolution beats it hands down for the eye-candy factor, but IMO Sylpheed (claws) is easy to use, very configurable and basically all you could want in a mail client.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Sylpheed-claws, which I am quite fond of.

And most importantly it's Japanese, of course ... lol ;-)
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maw
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With any luck, the GNOME2 port of Evolution should be far better with internationalisation thanks to GTK2. Assuming they do it right...
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not sure about that max, from reading the evolution mailing lists it appears they don't have anyone with half a clue about implementing non standard character sets at this stage. Their standard answer to the majority of questions about it are "Well, gee, it should be working...". There are a few evolution hackers about that came up with solutions/workarounds early on, but the latest release is broken.

Hopefully the whole pango/gnome 2 thing will solve many of the problems gnome has had with different character sets, but I think in the end it will come down to a lot of hacking on the users part (which is how it should be in a way I guess) to get it all working properly.

Ximian have made an excellent product that is helping bring linux into more offices and putting it on more desktops, which is a good thing. Every good thing takes time and I am sure they will sort it all out in the end.

While we are on the subjects of gui's for mail and eye-candy, has anyone tried mahogony?
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EnsignRicki
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blofeld wrote:
You can also use mozilla mail. But by default, as you might have observed, it does only check the Inbox folder.
So you have to walk one time through all folders you would like to have autmatically be checked, right-click -> Properties -> and check "Check this folder for new mail".

I've been using mozilla mail, because of it's superb handling of different multiple accounts - whats wrong about it? 8)


That did it. Thanks a lot! And thanks to everyone for their suggestions.
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ebrostig
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2003 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This has been a nice thread to read, with pro's and contra's about various email clients and KDE/gnome specific ones, without the usual flamewar :) Good Job!

Now back to the issue.
I personally use KDE and Kmail.
However, I do things a little different as my corporate mail server has a 40MB limit. I use fetchmail to donwload all new emails from the IMAP server to my local box and then re-mails them to the correct local user with sendmail which I also use to send mail to our mailservers. I then use the filter option in Kmail heavily including 'spamassasin' to filter out spam. I have used Kmail now for years and it works for me :)

I have tried several other Email clients like Balsa, Evolution, Mozilla mail, Syplheed claws and others, but none has satisfied my needs the same way as Kmail has. It has several features that I personally like, one of them the incredible handlinbg of multibyte characters. I work for a very international comapny and from time to time someone sends out emails in Chinese, Japanes, Korean, Thai, Arabic, Russian, Hebrew and any other thinkable language. Kmail and KDE handles all of them very gracefully.

Until I find something better, I'll stick with Kmail.

Everyone is talking about resource hogs, but really not so. It takes very little cpu and memory: (from top right now)
3036 ebrostig 15 0 22156 21m 16m S 0.0 2.5 0:09.11 kmail

Total mem is 21MB, where 16MB is shared (Basically KDE background services), so Kmail takes up a wopping 5MB of ram, yeah it's huge :) It uses 0.0% CPU since it is idle right now, yeah a real resource hog :)

I hoenstly don't understand why people says it uses a lot of resources and is bloated. That's not how I see it.

Erik
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