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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:43 am    Post subject: Native Dual-Stack in My Town Reply with quote

I got pissed at my ARM box and went to Best Buy to pick up a router. It's an Asus that does IPv6. Neat. On a hunch, I checked with my provider and they've just finished deploying native IPv6 to my area. So I spent literally several seconds in my router enabling native IPv6. Everything just works with it. It has its own separate firewall page. No tunneling or added latency needed.

I guess I need a new enthusiast hobby. This one is a little too accessible.
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wildhorse
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a few weeks ago, you were bragging about how well your IPv6 setup runs. Now you are telling us that you had to replace your ARM box with a router made by ASUS which you bought from those gangsters at Best Buy and everything works fine. Again? :lol: It gets better... ASUS uses SoC ICs made by Broadcom. Those SoCs have a processor integrated. The older ones come with a MIPS processor, while the latest ones come with - guess what - an ARM processor. :lol: :lol: :lol:
I think this is a case of Linux being too selective about its friends.
BTW you can replace the firmware of your ASUS router with Linux. Please, post the final outcome here. :P
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ARM box ran a full Gentoo install. Updating the bootloader on it did something to remove the second NIC. Despite all the talk these boards have of being Linux-friendly, some of the hardware doesn't have in-tree support, like wireless. So I had a USB stick popping out of the side. And it was going down every now and again so I would have to serial-console into it.

That was fun, but it got old.

OpenWRT doesn't support this router, DD-WRT might.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has Broadcom gone all ARM? I thought they used MIPS cores in the past.
I've been mucking with my "newsed" Actiontec Q1000 DSL CPE+router specifically for ipv6, then again it's only 6rd. It uses a MIPS based Broadcom4350 but this is a fairly old router... (And my old WRT54Gs are MIPSEL Broadcoms as well.)

I just need to figure out how to edit the rootfs in the firmware image to upgrade busybox with more applets... Though Actiontec published their code and have a devkit out, the ISP-specific bits are not available for firmware build... wonder what the GPL implications of this is...
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eccerr0r wrote:
Has Broadcom gone all ARM? I thought they used MIPS cores in the past.

If they are smart they'll switch, mips smp support is really bad.... noone will miss their silly primitive mips when and if they really switch :-)

http://www.broadcom.com/press/release.php?id=s797235
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
The ARM box ran a full Gentoo install. Updating the bootloader on it did something to remove the second NIC. Despite all the talk these boards have of being Linux-friendly, some of the hardware doesn't have in-tree support, like wireless. So I had a USB stick popping out of the side. And it was going down every now and again so I would have to serial-console into it.

That was fun, but it got old.

OpenWRT doesn't support this router, DD-WRT might.
I am using Gentoo on my Raspberry Pi farm and some of my PCs. It works "fine" on all systems. Of course there are many ways to screw up any system.

Support for WLAN has been bad on Linux for many years. A few configurations work better than others by now. The makers of the WLAN chips have caused most of the trouble. This has nothing to do with the CPU.

I am sorry that you had to use USB for WLAN. USB is a shitty interface. It has never been designed for real-time applications like data transfer to and from hard disk drives, USB-to-JTAG progammers, scanners, time signal receivers (for NTP), UMTS or WLAN. You can reproduce the same problems on a regular PC which you encountered on your ARM system. If you attach two or more of such peripheral devices to one USB host controller, then it is only a matter of time that data get lost. You can also encounter data loss via USB if your CPU does not read or write the data via USB on time. This is a design flaw of USB. I have reproduced the faults with all the mentioned peripheral devices on various PCs - and my Raspberry Pis as well.

I think you used your ARM system not only as router and WLAN access point, but also as system for experiments. This can be exciting at times.

I have attached only one device per USB host controller (not to be confused with USB connectors) on my Raspberry Pis. No trouble.
One of my Raspberry Pis is attached to the most important Raspberry Pis via a serial interface for remote console access. I use two connectors of the RPi's general purpose interface for that purpose (3 wire only, GND, RX and TX crossed) and USB-TTY interfaces to the other RPis. I never touch the software of the RPi machine for remote console access (and that RPi has a minimal Gentoo on a read-only mounted SD card). Access to the remote console RPi is done via Ethernet.

I think many of the simple ARM boards have design flaws, like the wrong use of USB. However, that has nothing to do with the ARM processors.

IMHO you did the right thing when you bought the ASUS router. The Broadcom SoC chips are well designed for applications like routers.

I doubt that Broadcom has entirely replaced MIPS for ARM. Broadcom has too many products with MIPS processors. But I am sure that we will see more products with the ARM processor from Broadcom.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have also lost some interest in ip6, it is perfect to access the home computer when traveling but my mobile provider do not offer ip6, and I have to root the handy to set up a (dead slow) freenet tunnel .....
My ADSL provider won't be happy I bugged the support for weeks to have the reverse dns delegation for my ip6 addresses, since google and other providers do not accept smtp traffic from ip6 hosts if the reverse dns do not match, and now I barely connect the ip6 tunnel .... Beside that it too soon for an ip6 only smtp server, half of the mails get lost ....
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those are merely short-term issues with IPv6. Give it another decade or two. Or three. :)
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah, same problem here. Though I'm stuck with using 6rd for now (though the router is handling 6rd), the ipv6 is useless until I can get statics, as well as reverse. I have static ipv4, and I really think they should give ipv6 statics gratis with the ipv4...
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erm67
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eccerr0r wrote:
Oh yeah, same problem here. Though I'm stuck with using 6rd for now (though the router is handling 6rd), the ipv6 is useless until I can get statics, as well as reverse. I have static ipv4, and I really think they should give ipv6 statics gratis with the ipv4...

I have a static ip6 subnet, a /48 and after weeks also got the reverse dns delegation, my plan to run an ip6 only smtp server failed because there are too many ip4 only smtp servers out there ....... basically an ip6 only smtp server receives emails from google, yahoo and a few others .......


wildhorse wrote:
USB is a shitty interface.

Prior to USB 3.0 it was half-duplex, just think, like 4800baud modems ......... usb3 (on both sides) is a lot better


Do arm boards have usb3?
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
wildhorse wrote:
USB is a shitty interface.

Prior to USB 3.0 it was half-duplex, just think, like 4800baud modems ......... usb3 (on both sides) is a lot better
Full-duplex is an improvement. But it's still a shitty interface.
Quote:
Do arm boards have usb3?
Some ARM-based SoC come with USB 3, such as the one made by NXP.
The Arndale board and others come with USB 3.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wildhorse wrote:
erm67 wrote:
wildhorse wrote:
USB is a shitty interface.

Prior to USB 3.0 it was half-duplex, just think, like 4800baud modems ......... usb3 (on both sides) is a lot better
Full-duplex is an improvement. But it's still a shitty interface.


My DVB-T usb2 stick works quite well, but DVB-T is pretty much a unidirectional stream, perfect for a half duplex link, of course interacting with the stick (like changing filters) while is streaming is nearly impossible ..... :-)

It is also the linux usb implementation that sucks big time, the same board-card combination often performs better with different OSs.

the dreaded "usb: recv bulk message failed: -110"
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, add DVB-T which is bad on USB (unless you use a dedicated USB host controller).

Now that you mentioned the Linux USB implementation, I think wswartzendruber is going to need an extra load of beer this evening. On a Friday. Approaching 150 kg, eh? :P
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wildhorse wrote:
If you attach two or more of such peripheral devices to one USB host controller, then it is only a matter of time that data get lost. You can also encounter data loss via USB if your CPU does not read or write the data via USB on time. This is a design flaw of USB. I have reproduced the faults with all the mentioned peripheral devices on various PCs - and my Raspberry Pis as well.
Were those problems not fixed in USB 3?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, USB has not been fixed.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wildhorse wrote:
No, USB has not been fixed.

How do you know? You are still using usb2 :-)
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wildhorse wrote:
No, USB has not been fixed.
Wow. Seems like v3 would have been a good opportunity.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wildhorse wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
The ARM box ran a full Gentoo install. Updating the bootloader on it did something to remove the second NIC. Despite all the talk these boards have of being Linux-friendly, some of the hardware doesn't have in-tree support, like wireless. So I had a USB stick popping out of the side. And it was going down every now and again so I would have to serial-console into it.

That was fun, but it got old.

OpenWRT doesn't support this router, DD-WRT might.
I am using Gentoo on my Raspberry Pi farm and some of my PCs. It works "fine" on all systems. Of course there are many ways to screw up any system.

Support for WLAN has been bad on Linux for many years. A few configurations work better than others by now. The makers of the WLAN chips have caused most of the trouble. This has nothing to do with the CPU.

I am sorry that you had to use USB for WLAN. USB is a shitty interface. It has never been designed for real-time applications like data transfer to and from hard disk drives, USB-to-JTAG progammers, scanners, time signal receivers (for NTP), UMTS or WLAN. You can reproduce the same problems on a regular PC which you encountered on your ARM system. If you attach two or more of such peripheral devices to one USB host controller, then it is only a matter of time that data get lost. You can also encounter data loss via USB if your CPU does not read or write the data via USB on time. This is a design flaw of USB. I have reproduced the faults with all the mentioned peripheral devices on various PCs - and my Raspberry Pis as well.

I think you used your ARM system not only as router and WLAN access point, but also as system for experiments. This can be exciting at times.

I have attached only one device per USB host controller (not to be confused with USB connectors) on my Raspberry Pis. No trouble.
One of my Raspberry Pis is attached to the most important Raspberry Pis via a serial interface for remote console access. I use two connectors of the RPi's general purpose interface for that purpose (3 wire only, GND, RX and TX crossed) and USB-TTY interfaces to the other RPis. I never touch the software of the RPi machine for remote console access (and that RPi has a minimal Gentoo on a read-only mounted SD card). Access to the remote console RPi is done via Ethernet.

The Rube Goldberg network appliance. :P

Send me a diagram; I can make a case for you out of Lego blocks. :wink:
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wait until the raspy gets a working XWindows stack than you'll see ....

Network & usb share the same limited speed DMA so the HW is not really the best for networking and USB periferals, but those are the only supported periferals, the graphic stack, with its 1 (one) powerful pipeline & multimedia accel capabilities (pay for licence) is its real strong point, but the proprietary drivers suck .......
I guess it might be good for playing mp3 .....
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have one. I played around with it a bit, but can't figure out anything useful to do with it. My brother has one he used to pair with an Arduino to make a "robot" that bumps into walls. I'm think maybe I'll make an artificially intelligent toilet.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bones McCracker wrote:
I have one. I played around with it a bit, but can't figure out anything useful to do with it. My brother has one he used to pair with an Arduino to make a "robot" that bumps into walls. I'm think maybe I'll make an artificially intelligent toilet.

That is the intelligent and intended use for it!!!! XBMC & upnp renderer is also an acceptable use, given the HW capabilities and limited bandwidth required. Pretend to run a KDE destop on it, well .... not so smart, bugging devs around because 'their code' is too slow for the raspy totally unacceptable.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KDE from a Raspberry Pi over a 100 Mbit/s Ethernet? :roll: :roll: :roll:
That is even with a remote fast PC over a 1 Gbit/s Ethernet crap.

Pi-powered anti-cat garden sprinkler system
Raspberry Pi PIR Cat Deterrent 2
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wildhorse wrote:
KDE from a Raspberry Pi over a 100 Mbit/s Ethernet? :roll: :roll: :roll:

100Mbit/s nominal speed, I doubt it can actually do 100Mbit/s with tcp, did you actually do some iperf tests? (or other netspeed tools)
Actually it 'should' be fast enough for 100Mbit/s, if nothing is connected to the USB port :-)
Well at least using /dev/zero as source, is the sdcard capable of 100Mbit/s? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
BTW did you notice that it has a hdmi port?
wildhorse wrote:

That is even with a remote fast PC over a 1 Gbit/s Ethernet crap.

This is going to be fixed this autumn when Wayland is going to go prime time :-) I guess it won't take long until waylan can use accelerated graphics (for the moment only llvmpipe works) and the rdp compositor is also almost working.
A dedicated 100Mbit/s link could even be enough for rdp
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe you should build your own machine.
Wayland: almost working - it's going to be great - real soon :roll: :roll: :roll:
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wildhorse wrote:

Wayland: almost working - it's going to be great - real soon :roll: :roll: :roll:

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTY4NDc

There are also git PKGBUILDs for Arch if you are interested, KDE/QT is also almost ready.

Only llvmpipe is enabled in the git and they wont enable hw accel for the moment so not for every day usage unless your CPU is really good at SSE2

PS. I Buyed (and often resold on ebay) too much bad hardware, I learned to mistrust 35$ miracle boards.
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