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What init system do you use? |
All OpenRC (Default init system) |
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72% |
[ 86 ] |
Mostly OpenRC |
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4% |
[ 5 ] |
About half OpenRC and half Systemd |
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5% |
[ 6 ] |
Mostly Systemd |
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0% |
[ 1 ] |
All Systemd |
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16% |
[ 20 ] |
Basic SysVinit or something else in portage |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
Launchd, Upstart, or something else because I really like pain |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
I wrote my own init system, you insensitive clod! |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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Total Votes : 118 |
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Author |
Message |
eccerr0r Watchman
Joined: 01 Jul 2004 Posts: 9677 Location: almost Mile High in the USA
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Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:38 pm Post subject: Your Gentoo: what init system do you use? |
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I'm curious.
For all of your Gentoo machines, which of these apply?
Me, most of my boxes running Gentoo are mostly OpenRC. My Core-i7 and i5 are Systemd, and just about everything else is OpenRC after the upgrade from sysvinit.
Dang, if I had tried sticking to plain sysvinit and masked openrc back then... world of hurt...
Oh -- NO POLITICS here. Do it at https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-983808-start-75.html instead.
edit: Changed title as suggested, this is not a systemd vs openrc war despite these are the two main Gentoo options.
Last edited by eccerr0r on Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Chiitoo Administrator
Joined: 28 Feb 2010 Posts: 2571 Location: Here and Away Again
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Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:12 am Post subject: ><)))°€ |
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Cool poll.
I've been pondering a bit why I haven't been seeing one of these!
I'm all for OpenRC. I'm pretty confident systemd is not entering my systems, ever, in any way or fashion. Even if this was a politics thread, I would not go in length to the whyes. It simply is!
Then again, I'm also all for static-dev which makes me one of the more odd ones(?), though it's not that I'm calling that odd. In any case, shhh, don't tell anyone yet because I've not got back into things I need to be doing with regards to that...
Blubb! _________________ Kindest of regardses. |
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krinn Watchman
Joined: 02 May 2003 Posts: 7470
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Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:00 am Post subject: |
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I would say you have 3 kind of choices for init : political, technical and popularity.
I understand why you try to avoid politics when speaking about init, so only technical and popularity remain.
The poll questions suggest it's not a query for technical answers, so it must be popularity poll.
As of today as "just because it's gentoo default init system", the poll winner should only be openrc. Just like the same popularity poll in arch linux forum should gives systemd as winner.
But as everyone knows gnome profile use systemd, and your poll didn't expose gnome users population ; the poll could be seen as a way to flaw results to promote systemd by suggesting even as default init ; many users drop openrc for systemd.
Proving by gnome popularity some technical superiority of systemd over openrc. But it would be then politic...
So what your poll is trying to answer if you really aren't doing politic there? |
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Navar Guru
Joined: 20 Aug 2012 Posts: 353
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Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:47 am Post subject: |
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I do understand where you're coming from Krinn.
@OP, would you consider renaming the subject to simply match the poll: What init system do you use? |
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fturco Veteran
Joined: 08 Dec 2010 Posts: 1181 Location: Italy
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Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:31 am Post subject: |
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I'm a GNOME user so I have systemd. |
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asturm Developer
Joined: 05 Apr 2007 Posts: 8935
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Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:41 am Post subject: |
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All OpenRC, and it is going to stay that way as long as it doesn't get too painful to run a comfortable desktop system - no problem right now. Servers will keep OpenRC much longer. |
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NeddySeagoon Administrator
Joined: 05 Jul 2003 Posts: 54216 Location: 56N 3W
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Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:58 am Post subject: |
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After making some choices on technical merit my package.mask finishes with.
Code: | # over my dead body hard masks
# dump GNOME and anything else that has this as a hard dependency at any version
sys-apps/systemd
# go back to a static /dev
sys-fs/eudev
sys-fs/udev
sys-auth/polkit
sys-auth/consolekit
media-sound/pulseaudio |
I'm an openrc user and have been since about 2007 _________________ Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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griever n00b
Joined: 24 Sep 2002 Posts: 57
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Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:17 am Post subject: |
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OpenRC.
Because it works. It's part of how I learned to get around Gentoo. And I haven't found a compelling reason to change... |
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GFCCAE6xF Apprentice
Joined: 06 Aug 2012 Posts: 295
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Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:23 am Post subject: |
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All systemd here, using it since 2011 without issues
Also, I have no physical machines left with Gentoo - I only have a few systemd-nspawn containers running it and I like to those to be fully booting rather than basic chroot style so systemd is a must.
Edit: FWIW If you'd have made this a month or so ago I still had a physical box on openRC, sorry poll |
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szatox Advocate
Joined: 27 Aug 2013 Posts: 3131
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Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:38 am Post subject: |
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Actually krinn has a point, this pool is done wrong way.
It should either be plain list of inits or list of inits with common resons.
Plain list with names only, wouldn't build emotions. "Because it's default" means "i'm to stupid or too lazy to pick something better". C'mon, if you want to actually learn something keep your comments aside. You're influencing results the way you're doing it now.
List like:
openrc / default
openrc / chosen
systemd / forced by kde/gnome
systemd / chosen
upstart
busybox
custom
would let people say what they use and why |
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mv Watchman
Joined: 20 Apr 2005 Posts: 6747
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Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:57 am Post subject: |
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"Half openrc / half systemd" (since in grub I need a default choice, I have currently selected systemd. So perhaps currently saying "mostly systemd" would be more correct, but this might quickly change again...).
Originally, I installed systemd in parallel because I felt that someday I might be forced anyway;
moreover, to provide support for packages like squashmount also for systemd users, I needed it for testing.
Now it turned out a very good idea to have two (fully!) working boot systems in parallel: I could already use one to locate and fix a (hard to analyze) bug in my configuration of the other - in both directions. |
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c00l.wave Apprentice
Joined: 24 Aug 2003 Posts: 264
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Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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All OpenRC. While I could see a reason to migrate to systemd some time in the future on my desktops, servers etc. will surely stay on OpenRC for long unless required otherwise. Reason? OpenRC worked fine before and still does. "Never change a running system." (Plus, systemd still feels too early to be put in production on remote servers.) _________________ nohup nice -n -20 cp /dev/urandom /dev/null & |
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Naib Watchman
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 6051 Location: Removed by Neddy
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Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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All opencd from the moment roy pushed it into the tree and asked me to try it for a new build (hosed my system but that was a node making issue as a needed package wasn't bumped not openrc) _________________
Quote: | Removed by Chiitoo |
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Fran Guru
Joined: 29 Feb 2004 Posts: 530 Location: Coruña (Spain)
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Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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Moved to pure systemd a little over a year ago. Love the instant startup/shutdown (literally instant with an SSD). I also like (*gasp*) journalctl. And I don't give a fuck about it not being "the unix way" |
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mv Watchman
Joined: 20 Apr 2005 Posts: 6747
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Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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Fran wrote: | I also like (*gasp*) journalctl. |
Nice at most until you need the journal... one day systemd did not come up, not even a rescue shell. It turned out to be a wrong symlink in /etc/systemd/..., but I needed hours to find out: After booting with the working openrc, I was of course not able to read the f*cking log which would have shown me the cause immediately.
A log which can be read only from a working system has nothing to do with unix or not - it is an insanity. |
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khayyam Watchman
Joined: 07 Jun 2012 Posts: 6227 Location: Room 101
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Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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Fran wrote: | And I don't give a fuck about it not being "the unix way" :P |
... and *surprise* ... the thread became *political*. |
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Navar Guru
Joined: 20 Aug 2012 Posts: 353
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Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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khayyam wrote: | Fran wrote: | And I don't give a fuck about it not being "the unix way" |
... and *surprise* ... the thread became *political*. |
That's the problem with black vs white, us vs them, coke/pepsi etc. oriented topics. Still, maybe everyone's tired of running up against a wall with this. I know I am. |
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tld Veteran
Joined: 09 Dec 2003 Posts: 1816
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Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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mv wrote: | A log which can be read only from a working system has nothing to do with unix or not - it is an insanity. |
Precisely...I'm dumbfounded as to how one could see it any other way.
All OpenRC here for sure. Aside from systemd taking over so many things that I don't want handled in the init process, the aspect of systemd that's stunned me the most since I first heard about it was that binary log format.
One of the first things I had always held up as a glaring example of how 'nix design was superior to Windows was that unspeakable Windows event log...potentially critical system logging that can only be accessed on a working system. I will die wondering how/why that was emulated for Linux. Pure insanity really is the only way to describe it, and I can't imagine any advantage to it at all...let alone any that could ever justify it. |
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The Doctor Moderator
Joined: 27 Jul 2010 Posts: 2678
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Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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tld wrote: | I can't imagine any advantage to it at all. |
It saves space
Anyway, I'm on OpenRC since I have found it to be more reliable, all politics aside. It isn't that it doesn't break. It is that it still works enough for me to fix it if it does break and I know why it breaks.
It reminds me about the time Defence Minister Peter MacKay asked Lockeed "what would happen if the F-35's single engine fails in the Far North" to which the company replied, "It won’t" Assuming your product won't every have problems is just ridiculous.
My user experience with systemd left me with the same impression (they just assume it will work) so I'll stick with the one that is actually easy to fix when (not if) it breaks. BTW, as a pilot I always assume that the mission critical components will fail. I'm not trying to say OpenRC is less reliable or anything like that. _________________ First things first, but not necessarily in that order.
Apologies if I take a while to respond. I'm currently working on the dematerialization circuit for my blue box. |
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hasufell Retired Dev
Joined: 29 Oct 2011 Posts: 429
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Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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OpenRC, because I like diversity, choice and modularity. |
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eccerr0r Watchman
Joined: 01 Jul 2004 Posts: 9677 Location: almost Mile High in the USA
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Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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I had thought about the Gnome3 issue, but thought if one did not approve of systemd, it itself should have enough deterrence to stop one from installing gnome3. If however you didn't care, then well, now you're a systemd user. Yes it would be interesting to know who's using systemd without Gnome3 and I should have added that in for fun.
But all in all, yes, this was intended to be a popularity contest. Since Gentoo offers both, it can also be viewed as a way to escape from the systemd collective. And with the default being openrc, it's no wonder with these two facts, most are openrc users. And I made this into a time limited poll as I'm sure people may switch in the future.
But it does look like there is quite a few systemd users, and have to thank the Gentoo devs that made it possible, it must be h**l to keep both working. _________________ Intel Core i7 2700K/Radeon R7 250/24GB DDR3/256GB SSD
What am I supposed watching? |
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OmegaSW n00b
Joined: 30 Apr 2014 Posts: 9
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Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:36 am Post subject: |
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Now that both Debian and Ubuntu are going to switch to Systemd instead of Upstart, not using Systemd will become rather difficult eventually. Systemd whether you like it or hate it has become the defacto standard init system, and more and more software will make it a dependency.
Gnome was just the beginning, and we'll start seeing more in the very near future. I'm using Systemd now so that I do not have to worry about compatibility issues later. |
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warrens Apprentice
Joined: 04 Jan 2005 Posts: 239 Location: Don't Tread On Me!
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Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:59 am Post subject: |
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mv wrote: | Fran wrote: | I also like (*gasp*) journalctl. |
Nice at most until you need the journal... one day systemd did not come up, not even a rescue shell. It turned out to be a wrong symlink in /etc/systemd/..., but I needed hours to find out: After booting with the working openrc, I was of course not able to read the f*cking log which would have shown me the cause immediately.
A log which can be read only from a working system has nothing to do with unix or not - it is an insanity. | You realize that you still can use app-admin/metalog or app-admin/syslog-ng for text logs with systemd, do you not? Both have unit files for systemd. Metalog work out of the box, but for syslog-ng the stock config file does not play nice, I copied the config file from arch linux to get syslog-ng working right with systemd. _________________ The BIGGER the GOVERNMENT, the smaller the citizen.
DON'T TREAD ON ME!!!
My Bias #1
The best government is the government that governs least. |
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mv Watchman
Joined: 20 Apr 2005 Posts: 6747
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Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:54 am Post subject: |
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warrens wrote: | You realize that you still can use app-admin/metalog or app-admin/syslog-ng for text logs with systemd, do you not? |
Of course: Activating the metalog unit was my first command when I had installed systemd.
However, metalog is activated only very late in the boot process by systemd, so it didn't help me in the mentioned problem.
As I said: Binary logging is fine, until the very moment when you really need the log...
Of course, the problem was not only the logging, but the lack of a possibility to insert some debug sequences like "I got until here...": This "great" idea to do everything in som binary code monster instead of shell scripts which you can modify in case of problems... All the problems due to the broken systemd concept which were foreseeable and predicted by everybody with some experience already showed their ugly face on my system - and I bet not only on my system... |
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mrbassie l33t
Joined: 31 May 2013 Posts: 772 Location: over here
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Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:21 am Post subject: |
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openrc. I wouldn't touch systemd with a shitty stick. |
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