| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Anon-E-moose
Watchman
Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 6103
Location: Dallas area
|
 Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:32 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
From the Feb 2015 link http://ma.ttias.be/whats-new-systemd-2015-edition/
If that link doesn't give you nightmares I don't know what will
_________________
PRIME x570-pro, 3700x, 6.1 zen kernel
gcc 13, profile 17.0 (custom bare multilib), openrc, wayland |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
229566
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 16 Aug 2010
Posts: 127
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The real WTF is LP there standing and talking with no slides. Sounds like a project with no officially set goals and he just appeared there to talk about "ideas" they had. Or is it some new level of arrogance along the lines of "Y'all don't need docs nor slides, just listen to what we have to say, it's not like you can do anything about it"... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fitzcarraldo
Advocate
Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Posts: 2038
Location: United Kingdom
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yes, I saw that post by Mattias Geniar, and the comments on it, some of which raise further concerns in my mind regarding the future of Linux. Which reminds me of another recent post I read: Has modern Linux lost its way? (Some thoughts on jessie). He's not only talking about systemd, but I share his concerns. I too worry what is happening to Linux.
_________________
Clevo W230SS: amd64, VIDEO_CARDS="intel modesetting nvidia".
Compal NBLB2: ~amd64, xf86-video-ati. Dual boot Win 7 Pro 64-bit.
OpenRC systemd-utils[udev] elogind KDE on both.
My blog |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
depontius
Advocate
Joined: 05 May 2004
Posts: 3509
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
FOSS Force had some sort of article about newbies on Linux. While it was nowhere explicit, I interpreted there to be "systemd" in there as the way to push Linux out to the masses. So my comment was that I have nothing against new users, and I've supported people on Linux who were never going to really learn it, and that's OK. Then citing car analogies, as a previous commenter had, I said that automatic transmissions and dealer-only servicing are OK for some - just don't take away my stick shift or weld my hood shut.
_________________
.sigs waste space and bandwidth |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Anon-E-moose
Watchman
Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 6103
Location: Dallas area
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks Fitzcarraldo
I had to laugh at the close of that link though.
| Quote: | | Then as I was writing this, of course, my laptop started insisting that it needed the root password to suspend when I close the lid. And it’s running systemd. There’s another quagmire… |
_________________
PRIME x570-pro, 3700x, 6.1 zen kernel
gcc 13, profile 17.0 (custom bare multilib), openrc, wayland |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Anon-E-moose
Watchman
Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 6103
Location: Dallas area
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 6:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| depontius wrote: | | Then citing car analogies, as a previous commenter had, I said that automatic transmissions and dealer-only servicing are OK for some - just don't take away my stick shift or weld my hood shut. |
That's the problem though, to continue with that analogy, some little nothing has convinced most of the dealers (distros) that they need their software or the vehicle won't run properly. *sigh*
_________________
PRIME x570-pro, 3700x, 6.1 zen kernel
gcc 13, profile 17.0 (custom bare multilib), openrc, wayland |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
khayyam
Watchman
Joined: 07 Jun 2012
Posts: 6227
Location: Room 101
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| depontius wrote: | | Then citing car analogies, as a previous commenter had, I said that automatic transmissions and dealer-only servicing are OK for some - just don't take away my stick shift or weld my hood shut. |
depontius ... that metaphor already bit the dust ... cars *are* computers ... with the hood firmly weld shut.
best ... khay |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John R. Graham
Administrator
Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 10591
Location: Somewhere over Atlanta, Georgia
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ah, but I have a cutting torch!  (No kidding: I do. Both literal and metaphorical.)
- John
_________________
I can confirm that I have received between 0 and 499 National Security Letters. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bstaletic
Apprentice
Joined: 05 Apr 2014
Posts: 254
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| What I found funny are systemctl-(cat|edit). Will anyone use those instead of "cat" and "$EDITOR"??? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ct85711
Veteran
Joined: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 1791
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| next LP is probably say cat and $EDITOR is not secure, and you have to have permission to use those commands |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zoulou99
n00b
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Posts: 16
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Anon-E-moose wrote: |
I had to laugh at the close of that link though.
| Quote: | | Then as I was writing this, of course, my laptop started insisting that it needed the root password to suspend when I close the lid. And it’s running systemd. There’s another quagmire… |
|
the update
_________________
mydigitallife |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Anon-E-moose
Watchman
Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 6103
Location: Dallas area
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thanks for the link
_________________
PRIME x570-pro, 3700x, 6.1 zen kernel
gcc 13, profile 17.0 (custom bare multilib), openrc, wayland |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mrsteven
Veteran
Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Posts: 1938
|
| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| from the link above wrote: | | Singh makes the valid point that this stuff is in such a state of flux that even if a person is one of the few dozen in the world that understand what goes into a session today, the knowledge will be outdated in 6 months. (Hal, anyone?) |
Speaking of HAL, why again was it dumped? Ah, I see:
| Quote: | - It's a huge kitchen sink that hasn't seen any real rewrites except for the 0.4->0.5 transition very early on. [...]
- Because it does a lot, no single developer has a 100% overview of the code base [...]
- does a lot of things but none of them particular well - "Jack of all trades, Master of none" [...]
- Huge overlap with underlying components [...]
|
While HAL had other problems apart from the items quoted here, I can't remember that it had a binary logger or a bootloader included. 
_________________
Unix philosophy: "Do one thing and do it well."
systemd: "Do everything and do it wrong." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ArneBab
Guru
Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 429
Location: Graben-Neudorf, Germany
|
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 8:42 am Post subject: Plasma wants to support -shims |
|
|
David Edmundson replied in in blog, that he wants to keep Plasma working with -shims: http://blog.davidedmundson.co.uk/blog/systemd-and-plasma#comment-1862738836
| Quote: |
Realistically we're talking about the snapshot of the login1/timedate1 specs as of now. I follow what happens in that BSD shim. We tend to have a good relationship with most packagers (certainly I do with one BSD guy) if he tells us something is broken, we'll fix it in the final release.
We had a discussion at the Plasma sprint now, we'll be dropping legacy support in 5.5; over 6 months from now. We're trying hard to not screw any hard working distros over.
I can't promise we won't break it accidentally, we do it with the build system. I can say we won't do it deliberately; and certainly this should be done in a way that won't affect users.
However, if a distro doesn't make any effort then they will get left behind with an old Plasma. I don't want to let any one group ruin the experience of anyone else.
|
_________________
Being unpolitical means being political without realizing it. - Arne Babenhauserheide ( http://draketo.de )
pkgcore: So fast that it feels unreal - by doing only what is needed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
depontius
Advocate
Joined: 05 May 2004
Posts: 3509
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zoulou99
n00b
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Posts: 16
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mrsteven
Veteran
Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Posts: 1938
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
229566
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 16 Aug 2010
Posts: 127
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
steveL
Watchman
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 5153
Location: The Peanut Gallery
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
Jeezus God, I thought you were joking (and that was a joke blogpost) but no, not according to the link..
Now I know the whole thing is fsckd.. ;-) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gwr
Apprentice
Joined: 19 Nov 2014
Posts: 194
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Why in the $%$^ would I want a daemon for fsck?
Edit: Wait, I know. It's so I can not be able to run fsck on a problem drive because fsckd doesn't work on a problem drive.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Anon-E-moose
Watchman
Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 6103
Location: Dallas area
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
More like windows (done badly) with each addition.
_________________
PRIME x570-pro, 3700x, 6.1 zen kernel
gcc 13, profile 17.0 (custom bare multilib), openrc, wayland |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
depontius
Advocate
Joined: 05 May 2004
Posts: 3509
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Anon-E-moose wrote: | | windows (done badly) |
Isn't that redundant?
Cheers...
_________________
.sigs waste space and bandwidth |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mv
Watchman
Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 6749
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
With systemd-219, it is no longer possible to mount something without systemd generating internally some mount unit:
Attempts to use device mapper or mount directly or through tools using them (except through the systemd-assimilated software), are apparently intentionally boycotted: systemd must be the only tool used for all this.
Effects are e.g,: mount works (also a kernel message is reported), but it has no visible effect in the system, probably due to some cgroups hackery.
Due to this insanity, squashmount now officially drops support for systemd (although one of its aims was to be init-system independent - but this only includes sane init systems). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
steveL
Watchman
Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 5153
Location: The Peanut Gallery
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mv wrote: | With systemd-219, it is no longer possible to mount something without systemd generating internally some mount unit:
Attempts to use device mapper or mount directly or through tools using them (except through the systemd-assimilated software), are apparently intentionally boycotted: systemd must be the only tool used for all this. |
It's the Master Control-Program! ;-)
I still can't get past "fsckd daemon for inter-fsckd communication"; now we're all fscked ;)
| Quote: | Effects are e.g,: mount works (also a kernel message is reported), but it has no visible effect in the system, probably due to some cgroups hackery.
Due to this insanity, squashmount now officially drops support for systemd (although one of its aims was to be init-system independent - but this only includes sane init systems). |
Wow, if they had any sense that would be a wake-up call. Shame they have no clue who to listen to (so listen to the pushiest w&nker instead.) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
229566
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 16 Aug 2010
Posts: 127
|
| Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think at this point it's safe to say that systemd is posed to become an entire operating system base and will therefore consume a lot more functions. I used to joke about it but it's now blatantly obvious that GNU/Linux is in fact becoming systemd/Linux.
People joked that it's next going to turn bash (or whichever shell) into shelld, but... think about it. "Smart", kdbus-based tab completion data? Terminal multiplexing? Who wouldn't want that! Where do I sign up! </sarcasm>
However, after having accepted the fact that there's a whole friggin HTTPd server in journald for the purposes of remotely dispatching log entries via JSON (!!!!!), I've grown beyond the point where anything coming into systemd next would surprise me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Gentoo Chat
