What portage tree is for?

lefsha · Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:07 am Post subject: What portage tree is for?

... If to install the last version of Firefox I need to use an overlay, then what main portage tree is made for?
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Lefsha

Hu · Moderator Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 21633

Only current versions of packages are kept in tree. Firefox has a long history of security fixes in every major release, so it is common for older Firefox versions to be expired quickly.

kurly · Apprentice Joined: 02 Apr 2012 Posts: 260

You must not have sync'd recently. The main portage tree has the latest versions of Firefox. New versions of software are checked that they work before they are placed in the main portage tree. New development often occurs in overlays. If you don't like the speed with which this process occurs, you might consider becoming a Gentoo developer, since many projects are understaffed.

TomWij · Retired Dev Joined: 04 Jul 2012 Posts: 1553

The Gentoo Mozilla project is indeed understaffed (one of its members told me on IRC); if someone has interest in helping out, feel free to send a mail at mozilla@g.o (expand g.o to the full Gentoo domain name).

lefsha · Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:16 am Post subject:

lefsha · Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:22 am Post subject:

kurly · Apprentice Joined: 02 Apr 2012 Posts: 260

lefsha · Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:20 am Post subject:

And now check the date when it was released...

If you really want to know what overlay I am talking about - open your eyes and read previous message again.
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Lefsha

kurly · Apprentice Joined: 02 Apr 2012 Posts: 260

Then I'll have to stand by my original advice: "If you don't like the speed with which this process occurs, you might consider becoming a Gentoo developer, since many projects are understaffed."

Did you really just come to the forums to complain? Because that's what it seems like, and that won't get software available any faster.

lefsha · Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:37 pm Post subject:

You don't get my point. I was not talking about how fast this or that package can get available,
but about ignorance from gentoo developers about all overlays available for gentoo.
You offer me to be one of those? - No, thx.

Currently it's almost impossible to use gentoo without using overlays. Many packages not included
into main tree without any reasonable argument. The funny thing is, that everything gentoo developers
blame overlay distributed packages is applicable to the main tree as well. And more than that, nobody pushes
anyone to install any package from the overlay as well as from the main tree.

Also I don't take the argument for stable branch being more stable than unstable.
In my case everything is opposite. The unstable branch is more stable and some packages are not available
in stable branch at all. Mostly if upstream marks the certain version as stable gentoo devs keep call it
unstable another several years. The funny thing is, that some of those "stable" packages can't get compliled,
because of error in Makefile like libva, but the newest unstable and masked version compiles and works just fine...

At the same time very stable versions are deleted from the tree and replaced by really unstable ones,
which automatically without testing became stable. Just because there is another one which is newer.

Why not be honest to yourself and everyone else? Why not to drop the stable branch completely?
Frankly speaking gentoo can not be stable by it's nature. Either you give the user full control on
package compilation procedure or you compile CentOS by yourself and then call it stable.
That will be fair to every one.

Why not drop gentoo tree as a main tree and call it gentoo overlay demonstrating clear position to users or...
include _all_ packages available through different overlays into main tree and STOP crying that there is not enough
developers working for gentoo...

Again, if you read the first post carefully again, may be twice if necessary, you will find, that last version of firefox was
available through the overlay BEFORE it became available in the main tree. It does mean not writing ebuild is a problem,
but something else...

And definitely I would not write this post if that kind of things would not happen too many times to different
software projects. Now it has reached the level of firefox - the package 99% people are using.
Normally it should motivate some one to think why that could happen...

And if his conclusion will be a lack of developers brought us here, than probably he needs to go back to school...
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Lefsha

gerard27 · Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:58 pm Post subject:

@ lefsha,
Quote:"And if his conclusion will be a lack of developers brought us here, than probably he needs to go back to school...

You're being rude!
Nobody forces you to use Gentoo.
Gerard.
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The same disk can be used for 32 and 64 bit installs.
You can follow the Handbook verbatim.
http://www.sysresccd.org/Download

kurly · Apprentice Joined: 02 Apr 2012 Posts: 260

I understand your point lefsha, and you are completely missing mine. If you don't want to help, then get out of the way. Your complaining does not help. Volunteers are working for you, and you are belittling their efforts. Nobody wants to hear you complain and then refuse to help. I hope you will find happiness some day, but nobody owes you anything, and your insults will not help your situation nor improve your mood. Good luck in your future, but I think you will find no satisfaction here if you continue with your current actions and words.

You have a lot to learn yourself. Insulting me and insulting others will never help you. I can read just fine; you just don't like what I am writing. I'm sorry I tried to help you; it is clear that it was not an effective use of my time.

Hu · Moderator Joined: 06 Mar 2007 Posts: 21633

skellr · Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:12 am Post subject: Re: What portage tree is for?

TomWij · Retired Dev Joined: 04 Jul 2012 Posts: 1553

Polynomial-C · Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:27 am Post subject:

Fitzcarraldo · Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:39 pm Post subject:

Polynomial-C · Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:52 pm Post subject:

Lartten · n00b Joined: 16 Dec 2008 Posts: 7

lefsha · Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:24 pm Post subject:

The funny thing about ALL answers is - you haven't even tried to turn the brain on before answering.
No adequate answer to any of my points were found.

The main line was - we are the team and stop bother us with your stupid ideas.
No single point of criticism were accepted properly.

At the same time all destructive moments I was mentioned remained valid and will stay
so until anyone will be ready to look into mirror with open eyes.

If you are not ready do so, it's not my fault. That is for sure.
You might call my message rude or what ever you think about it, but the main thing is
you are afraid to be hones to yourself. And that is again not my problem.

Only few developers are working for Gentoo. That is correct observation. The proper question is why?
Why Gentoo once being much more popular is loosing it's adepts and can't ensure constant inflow of
new people? If everything is done in optimal way and nothing is wrong why less and less people want to use
it?
Why the Gentoo creator has left Gentoo? Is he also soo stupid?

As for me I went back because of systemd and other stupid moves of Linux mainstream.
Hopefully it will be over some time soon.

Gentoo even in "stable" edition is a headache for any server admin. That is why people are using CentOS
as mentioned in previous message. Qualify all of them as stupid makes anyone answering this way not so clever
as well. And that IS the fact. Gentoo is NOT stable and never will be or Gentoo devs misunderstand that term.
Again it is proven, that in most cases unstable branch is actually more stable independent of what people here say.

Of course I could bring my hands up and pray to GenDev how smart they are and how thankful I am and all that kind of things, but what the point? Either people are ready to listen to different opinion or they aren't.

And here it has been proven the fact of being not ready for change or accept any other opinion or even understand it.
Therefore I stop here. Makes no sense to continue.
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Lefsha

i92guboj · Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:10 pm Post subject:

Moved from Portage & Programming to Gentoo Chat.

I really don't care about the debate but this is not about Programming, neither about portage. Certainly it's not a support question. So, moving...

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:39 pm Post subject:

lefsha,

To be very blunt, you will not influence opinions anywhere in open source just by airing your own.
You need to contribute somehow to give your opinion some weight.

Overlay users need to understand the risks they are taking. If you use even one ebuild from outside the portage tree, you are no longer using Gentoo.
If its then not stable, its your problem. Gentoo gave you the tools and you used them to build the Linux of your choice.
When it breaks, you can keep all the pieces.
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Regards,

NeddySeagoon

Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail.

kernelOfTruth · Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:41 pm Post subject:

lefsha, it's a time constraints issue

devs don't like to do bug-hunting (I can relate to that) so some tasks get higher priority - and this on a voluntary basis

simple as that

what's so hard to use overlay search-engines and see whether the ebuilds are available on the overlays and then trying them out (or simply bumping the version, thanks to portage that works most times for me) ?

if they're fine - I use 'em,

if there's trouble - I post here (unsupported or other subforums) or on b.g.o to get support
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