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TomWij
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:15 pm    Post subject: Trolls, Moderation, and the Etiquette of Technical Discourse Reply with quote

User: Anon-E-moose
Topic: When (and if) Gentoo will switch to systemd?
Post: post 7485824
Reason: Off-topic personal bash attack, has made prior posts like these with a similar message.


Last edited by TomWij on Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:47 pm; edited 2 times in total
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pjp
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomWij wrote:
User: Anon-E-moose
Topic: When (and if) Gentoo will switch to systemd?
Post: post 7485824
Reason: Off-topic personal bash attack, has made prior posts like these with a similar message.
Replied.
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steveL
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
TomWij wrote:
User: Anon-E-moose
Topic: When (and if) Gentoo will switch to systemd?
Post: post 7485824
Reason: Off-topic personal bash attack, has made prior posts like these with a similar message.
Replied.

No offence to the moderators, but I really do feel TomWij is turning into a pedantry-troll: he reports practically everyone who disagrees with him, and simply refuses to think about their point. He pursues an agenda afaic, of "moving Gentoo forward" (aka "shiny, shiny") by ignoring what is said to him and riding rough-shod over the experience of others, cloaked under a mask of fastidious insistence on the rules of debate.

In any event, I don't think Anon-E-Moose should take this one alone, and I responded to pjp's post. I don't want the discussion on there, as it's nothing to do with the topic. Insisting that because things may be seen as similar, that they are exactly the same for discussion purposes, even when the distinction is what people are complaining about in the topic at hand, is beyond disingenuous, IMO. It's either pig-headed, or plain politicking, afaic.

Either way, I'd like his abuse of form to stop. If you troll people in a discussion forum, expect them to a) respond and b) discuss it in the same forum when you keep on doing it. Wilfully ignoring people's point to the extent of never even acknowledging it, is both discourteous and trolling. It merely serves to inflame the conversation to a point where they're annoyed enough to discuss your trolling, typically in baffled puzzlement at the illogic; once it goes on, it gets discussed as trolling, at which point you accuse them of "bashing".

The forums have no /ignore facility, so I'll try again to stop responding to TomWij. It's very difficult since he responds directly to me, and challenges what I say, then gets lost in illogic and ends with an insistence that "well things could be seen like that" so therefore he was right never to think about the words said to him. He has a tendency to take over a conversation, as evinced with his recent derailing of the slow arch thread on -dev. If I don't respond, it looks like he has a point, and often he's not picked up on it, perhaps because he's got a dev badge attached. If I do, usually after a while, I get caught up in the head-games of conceptual discussion, which frankly are tedious.

I know I said we should leave the discussion there, but I only just saw the report. At least assure me that someone is aware of the multiple complaints, and will have a word. Users tend not to report devs, as they're seen as staff, like it or not. As such you should hold them up to a higher standard, and that includes the emotional intelligence required to moderate, which in turn requires the ability to critically self-evaluate and not get your knickers in a twist when someone calls you a bad word, or makes you feel small. Half the time you're misinterpreting, and they don't mean anything by it, or at least not what you think they meant. And 30% of the time, it's your own feeling of inadequacy, at having simple things pointed out to you, which you need to learn to deal with: that's part of growing-up.

Simple things are hard. But people will discuss you in the same forum; if you don't like it, stop behaving in the way that's making them discuss you. If you don't know what that is, ask someone off-forum.
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no problem with how pjp responded to me.

As far as ignoring, I use greasemonkey and a phpBB user blocker script.

[discuss]
I know I've seen a discussion about what constitutes trolling.
I don't consider having a differing opinion to be trolling, it's just an opinion, whether informed or not.

When someone comes in on any discussion about widgets, just an example, and seemingly tries
to disrupt every discussion about widgets, even if it is only tangential, then, to me, that is trolling.

I understand that people don't like to be called trolls or hear that they are considered trolling.
But they need to look at their behavior, as most people don't just throw that term out willy-nilly.
[/discuss]

Anyway...back to the regularly scheduled show.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers for the tip, but that's not an option for me right now, and in any case the substantive issue should be dealt with. It's no good telling abusive people to carry on and their victims to take responsibility for staying out of their way: that way lies madness, and the end of the forums spirit. But the moderators can only act when asked to, and can only take each case in the context presented. They're volunteers too, and do their best moderation when they're not asked to step in.

I'm more than happy for my history with TomWij on the forums to be gone over, if that's what it takes. I'd quite enjoy describing the way he reported me twice at least, both times in a conniving and underhand fashion, afaic, especially given that I reached out to him on IRC. So if people want to do the whole process, I'm game; I don't think it's really in anyone's interest though. The forums are informal, heck gentoo as a whole is informal, and all I want is someone a) to acknowledge the various complaints as having some validity, and b) to have a quiet word offline, as moderators have done in the past; it's why we trusted them to become the proctors in the first place.
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desultory
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

steveL wrote:
The forums are informal, heck gentoo as a whole is informal, and all I want is someone a) to acknowledge the various complaints as having some validity,
Your complaints are not without some degree of merit. However, for the time being, he seems to have backed down from trying to win formal debates on the forums.
steveL wrote:
and b) to have a quiet word offline, as moderators have done in the past; it's why we trusted them to become the proctors in the first place.
If you would be so kind as to allow e-mail, IRC and/or forums PM to qualify as offline, thereby saving me a rather onerous swim, I already discussed it with him and he appears to have at least somewhat accommodated my suggestions with regards to formality and decorum.

If you think that I am missing something in this regard, please bring it to my attention.

Split from "Report violations, duplicates, misplaced posts, etc.", so as to allow both to be more readily read.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

desultory wrote:
However, for the time being, he seems to have backed down from trying to win formal debates on the forums.
To win a formal debate you have to acknowledge the common ground of prepositions. Otherwise it's a meta discussion if you question this very narrow ground :
- Redhat wants to konquer the Linux Desktop
- LP is a bad developer
- systemd is a poor software stack
- everyone can see this easily
- every developer who contributes to systemd wants to get a Redhat job (like Greg now)
- Linux is a simple system and there are no complicated use cases
- Any attempt to vertical integrate is over complication and useless, because
- Linux is mature and every step ahead is against unix philosophy
- systemd will fail soonishly (since two years).

What to discuss here? If you have to admit all those rubbish as absolute thruth what is to win on that grounds a discussion? (I am a sycophant, because I don't live in their parallel universe, and because I use systemd and pulseaudio and I know the Desktop is dead from the developers side. I know for Redhat there is no win to konquer the deadlands. All things said from these guys is out of touch with reality for me. I wouldn't try to discuss it in such a forum thread again, because every time I ended in this forum.)
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

desultory wrote:
steveL wrote:
The forums are informal, heck gentoo as a whole is informal, and all I want is someone a) to acknowledge the various complaints as having some validity,
Your complaints are not without some degree of merit. However, for the time being, he seems to have backed down from trying to win formal debates on the forums.


It would be nice if there was debate, unfortunately all I see from those who wish to stop
all discussion about things like systemd and whether we will continue to have choice in init systems
is veiled insults or time wasting circular tail chasing neither is which is of any use, IMO.
I mean calling those who question the long term viability of some piece of software,
tinfoil hat wearing conspiracists or luddites, etc is hardly a discussion.
And yes, I've responded in kind simply because I got tired of it. (and yes, I do regret losing my cool)
I also don't like being called a nazi and some of the other things I've seen bandied about.

That's why I try not to get too involved in most threads dealing with it when they crop up.
That's also why I keep most of those who aren't interested in debate except for shutting it down on ignore.

Edit to add: Don't get me wrong, I like threads where one can discuss the merits of some piece of software, like widgets.
But I also wonder why if a thread is about potential conspiracy (example) of someone like RH,
it bothers some people that it is being discussed.
What do they get out of trying to keep said subjects from even being discussed?
If a dozen people wish to discuss the merits of widgets, why does it bother others?
It's not like the dozen people are trying to keep others from using widgets.
They're simply discussing the merits and perhaps possible reasons for the big push of it.
And yet, those types of threads are the ones that a few seemingly keep trying to disrupt.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@desultory, thank you. That's pretty much all I wanted to hear.

As Anon-E-moose said, it gets tiring.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
As far as ignoring, I use greasemonkey and a phpBB user blocker script.


Would you be willing to share that script?

For lack of an equivalent feature built into phpBB, I've had no choice but to avoid viewing the Gentoo forums entirely — never mind trying to maintain my original level of positive contribution — for about 2 years now (2? 3? I can't even remember any more...) in order to preserve my own mental health and a safe blood pressure.

This situation is beyond farcical.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i have over 17 pages of userstyles, where you insert your own css. i dont monkey much with grease monkey, though it is a suitable replacement for stylish. i could only find phpbb3 (big shocker) user block scripts from googling the site + phpbb + block user.

http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/95692

http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/50036 (firefox3? really?)

i even have a gentoo dark theme on userstyles.org & a bugs.gentoo.org css format add in from some post months ago.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ant P. wrote:
Anon-E-moose wrote:
As far as ignoring, I use greasemonkey and a phpBB user blocker script.


Would you be willing to share that script?


https://sites.google.com/site/syphoon/gm_userignore.user.js

A popup should show up to install the script in greasemonkey if running
or to just download it if greasemonkey isn't installed yet.

I originally found it on the greasemonkey user script page, but I don't see that link anymore.
There are a couple of others, that if I remember right, also work.
One can search for "phpbb user" on the site.
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TomWij
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

steveL wrote:
pjp wrote:
TomWij wrote:
User: Anon-E-moose
Topic: When (and if) Gentoo will switch to systemd?
Post: post 7485824
Reason: Off-topic personal bash attack, has made prior posts like these with a similar message.
Replied.

No offence to the moderators, but I really do feel TomWij is turning into a pedantry-troll: he reports practically everyone who disagrees with him,


People are reported because of the forum guidelines; in this case the reported post reads "I ignore TomWij" in a wordy way, how does having this be stated on multiple discussions be constructive? What value does this post add to the thread? The idea of everyone ignoring everyone is odd; but if someone does go ahead, nagging the person with it afterwards is a bit too much. My last report was a long while ago and was on a valid merit; so, the generalization made here that I report everyone that disagrees does not hold.

steveL wrote:
and simply refuses to think about their point. He pursues an agenda afaic, of "moving Gentoo forward" (aka "shiny, shiny") by ignoring what is said to him and riding rough-shod over the experience of others, cloaked under a mask of fastidious insistence on the rules of debate.


To see what users are concerned about, I do think about the point. That's why I'm trying to keep the thread to that point, the topic of the thread; note that in that particular thread of the reported post the moderator had to address people to stay on topic. I also do not follow a "shiny, shiny" agenda. Posts that are being ignored within the thread, are likely due to them being off-topic; however, it does'n mean that I ignore them outside of the thread.

Some of us, for example, are on the QA team looking into dropping the systemd dependency from GNOME packages; because most of them are optional at run-time, and a (disguised) noblah USE flag like openrc-force is prohibited by policy. Also note that thread on the gentoo-project addressing the GNOME 2 / 3 matter, as well as warning users on the forums that they are shooting in their own foot by masking something for which the inverse will be removed from the Portage tree; the way forward here is to bring something like MATE to the Portage tree, to pursue a great user experience. Things like these are on my agenda, addressing user concerns; although man power is limited to accomplish everything. That working towards a separate systemd stage3 is on my agenda too but that doesn't mean anything in terms of making things more shiny; it may very well do so as a side effect, however I'm more concerned here about the users that have to go through a painful migration right after installing OpenRC. It makes their installation take so much longer and makes it so much harder, a shorter installation without those extra steps sounds much more useful.

steveL wrote:
In any event, I don't think Anon-E-Moose should take this one alone, and I responded to pjp's post. I don't want the discussion on there, as it's nothing to do with the topic. Insisting that because things may be seen as similar, that they are exactly the same for discussion purposes, even when the distinction is what people are complaining about in the topic at hand, is beyond disingenuous, IMO. It's either pig-headed, or plain politicking, afaic.


It is an informal "me-too-something-like-this" response to address the topic of "change" coming up for example in KDE, it has no further meaning beyond that; can you explain why you are formalizing it?

steveL wrote:
Either way, I'd like his abuse of form to stop. If you troll people in a discussion forum, expect them to a) respond and b) discuss it in the same forum when you keep on doing it. Wilfully ignoring people's point to the extent of never even acknowledging it, is both discourteous and trolling. It merely serves to inflame the conversation to a point where they're annoyed enough to discuss your trolling, typically in baffled puzzlement at the illogic; once it goes on, it gets discussed as trolling, at which point you accuse them of "bashing".


Both sides need to stop for the discussion to become more constructive and useful.

steveL wrote:
The forums have no /ignore facility, so I'll try again to stop responding to TomWij. It's very difficult since he responds directly to me,


The "KDE similarilty" post in that thread is addressed to someone else.

steveL wrote:
and challenges what I say, then gets lost in illogic and ends with an insistence that "well things could be seen like that" so therefore he was right never to think about the words said to him. He has a tendency to take over a conversation,


The perception of the thread at discussion here appears to be different.

steveL wrote:
as evinced with his recent derailing of the slow arch thread on -dev.


That thread has lead to multiple useful results; it clarified that QA's wording can be interpreted in multiple way so it is brought up for discussion again, Steev is looking for statistics to see which ARM stages are used less to see if they can reorganize the work too the more often used ARM stages / hardware and deal with the less used ARM stages / hardware on a case where it breaks instead of testing it as part of stabilization, people have learned also that this type of discussion were you don't answer the questions of the other person doesn't work and more...

steveL wrote:
If I don't respond, it looks like he has a point, and often he's not picked up on it, perhaps because he's got a dev badge attached. If I do, usually after a while, I get caught up in the head-games of conceptual discussion, which frankly are tedious.


The moments of conceptual clarification are those moments your concerns are becoming understood; it can be tedious having to clarify what is misunderstood, but what comes out of it is good.

steveL wrote:
I know I said we should leave the discussion there, but I only just saw the report. At least assure me that someone is aware of the multiple complaints, and will have a word. Users tend not to report devs, as they're seen as staff, like it or not. As such you should hold them up to a higher standard, and that includes the emotional intelligence required to moderate, which in turn requires the ability to critically self-evaluate


True; but I would rather like to be seen as an user, because we are users as well; developers come from the user community, you could even be one. There are enough other places where we already try to fulfill our role as a developer; the categories these discussions fall in in the forums, as well as channels like #gentoo-chat on IRC, are those things that feel like lying outside the developer's scope to me. This makes a developer discuss as an user, while still listening in the back of his/her mind as a developer; this can have its side effects when the user perceives the developer the other way around, where the user expects the developer to be a developer, but wants the developer to think in the terms of the user. It's why the amount of developers participating on the forum is low. My concerns are different as I'm a developer trying to find what users are concerned about and reflect these matters in what I daily do as a developer; if I didn't care and didn't listen I wouldn't even be here, but here I am so for the users I'd like to make the best out of it.

steveL wrote:
and not get your knickers in a twist when someone calls you a bad word, or makes you feel small.


Would love to see a more positive environment; if people, and just any of them, continuously get treated this way then what's still in for them?

steveL wrote:
Half the time you're misinterpreting, and they don't mean anything by it, or at least not what you think they meant. And 30% of the time, it's your own feeling of inadequacy, at having simple things pointed out to you, which you need to learn to deal with: that's part of growing-up.

Simple things are hard. But people will discuss you in the same forum; if you don't like it, stop behaving in the way that's making them discuss you. If you don't know what that is, ask someone off-forum.


Can you explain it here or in a /query to me?
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TomWij
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
What do they get out of trying to keep said subjects from even being discussed?


When person X makes a conspiracy, then you have two types of person Y and Z. Person Y completely disagrees about it, it can then be seen as conspiracy in the opposite direction; there might be such persons, but I can't name them as I don't want to categorize them. However, there's also a type of person Z that wonders how much of the conspiracy is an actual problem, as well as how much of the conspiracy we can already see today. Why does person Z wonder about this? Person Z wants to reshape the conspiracy in something that makes it impossible for the conspiracy to ever happen, to satisfy the user that brought up the conspiracy. In threads about it, I want like to see person Z's pursuit happen; it's why it is suggested that people mention this upstream and get the conspiracy heard, form a group to make it happen, ask questions as well as explain things to see how they are misunderstood to see if something can be changed on the distribution level, the list goes on...

Some of these actions, especially explanation and asking questions, can easily be perceived as keeping the subjects from being discussed; and this is what can get us down to discussions like assumptions of good faith as well as the presence of a belly button, misunderstandings can unintended easily have their toll on a discussion but that doesn't change that the discussion happened. To avoid misunderstandings, as well as keep on to the actual discussion; is why you will see me regard things as formal, as well as make sure we stay on to the topic and forum guidelines which are in place to keep things constructive. Because those actions are what makes the goal of Person Z happen; believe me or not, even when we're having a thread about Person Z like the one we are in now. We will act, learn or do something along those lines based on what's written here; even though others might consider what's written here to be a waste of time, because it's out of their interest.

You may very well perceive my goal as different; but I would like you to reconsider that it is a misunderstanding, simply because just like everyone I have better things to do than to amuse myself based on discussions with other people. All I'm here for is in attempts to positively amuse and make happy other people in a way that is helpful to their daily workflow, that addresses their concerns and issues; if it is continued to believed to be the opposite, I am willing to leave the forums if that's what makes people more happy (but as I can no longer support people that way, it is bound to make me unhappy).
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

desultory wrote:
steveL wrote:
The forums are...
Your complaints are not without some degree of merit. However,

:lol: :twisted:
@desultory : You rule!
Oh wait : :idea:
What about a very simple modification to the phpbb that would automatically append "Your complaints are not without some degree of merit. However," to [/quote] whenever the [/Quote] button is depressed ?
Oh wait : :idea: :idea:
While you are at it, I would like the quote button to automatically record a new post without having to edit it. The new post would be made of the quote, to which would have been catenated : "Your opinion matters but not to me!"
(Don't forget to italicize... it's definitely smarter.)
Grrreat! I see we are progressing.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomWij wrote:
You may very well perceive my goal as different;

Wrong! We necessarily percieve your goal as different! (Per virtue of the meaning of to perceive)
TomWij wrote:
but I would like you to reconsider that it is a misunderstanding

Wrong! You just cannot ask for that! Because perception addresses the sensibility. Not the understanding.
TomWij wrote:
All I'm here for is in attempts to positively amuse and make happy other people in a way that is helpful to

Very Wrong! You just cannot direct the way people are happy!
This can be formally demonstrated, however, a simple experience should stand better. When you were young, have you ever been offered as Christmas gift a... dictionary! A dictionary that had, with no doubt, been offered to you in a sincere attempt to make you happy in a way that is helpful ?
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aCOSwt wrote:
TomWij wrote:
You may very well perceive my goal as different;

Wrong! We necessarily percieve your goal as different! (Per virtue of the meaning of to perceive)


Right you are! Or may be? We can see in colors, as opposed to black and white; and thus there's a certain gradient of similarity you may pick from.

aCOSwt wrote:
TomWij wrote:
but I would like you to reconsider that it is a misunderstanding

Wrong! You just cannot ask for that! Because perception addresses the sensibility. Not the understanding.


Right you are! Or may be? The analysis of one's sensibility may lead to understanding. This gets more interesting when you take into account cultural differences.

aCOSwt wrote:
TomWij wrote:
All I'm here for is in attempts to positively amuse and make happy other people in a way that is helpful to

Very Wrong! You just cannot direct the way people are happy!
This can be formally demonstrated, however, a simple experience should stand better. When you were young, have you ever been offered as Christmas gift a... dictionary! A dictionary that had, with no doubt, been offered to you in a sincere attempt to make you happy in a way that is helpful ?


Very right you are! Or may be? This depends on what may be experienced with the dictionary after unpacking it; or actually, it doesn't. (Per virtue of the meaning of experience and what it leads to)
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aCOSwt wrote:
Wrong! We necessarily percieve your goal as different! (Per virtue of the meaning of to perceive)


One person might have a wrong perception, but when it's a dozen or more...well.

I'm pretty sure the 2 year old throwing a temper tantrum because he wants some candy,
wonders why others don't perceive his goal his way either.
But adults look at things a different way, usually from a broader viewpoint.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's because there is an awesome popcorn vending machine around the corner.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that, whoever feels addressed now, constantly telling someone else they were a troll but never adding any value themselves is the most refined act of trolling in itself. It is just one degree of dishonour below lamenting that a purely insulting post has been reported by stating they were reported because of disagreement. What a lame excuse.

@aCOSwt: I do not understand your remark about the meaning of "to perceive sth [as sth]". I looked it up in dict.leo.org, and it has 7 different (but somewhat related) meanings in german, and neither explains why you state that "We necessarily percieve your goal as different!" - could you please explain your demand to non-native english speakers, please? I'd be very grateful, and maybe others, too.

Anon-E-moose wrote:
As far as ignoring, I use greasemonkey and a phpBB user blocker script.
You know, for someone who constantly writes about their oh-so-cool ignore-the-Tom-script, everywhere in any other thread, you are very obstinate in tracking "the ignored" down to throw insults at him. How do you justify that as not being trollish? Just wondering.

Because:
Anon-E-moose wrote:
When someone comes in on any discussion about widgets, just an example, and seemingly tries
to disrupt every discussion about widgets, even if it is only tangential, then, to me, that is trolling.
+1

Couldn't have expressed it better!
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamakuzure wrote:
Anon-E-moose wrote:
As far as ignoring, I use greasemonkey and a phpBB user blocker script.
You know, for someone who constantly writes about their oh-so-cool ignore-the-Tom-script, everywhere in any other thread, you are very obstinate in tracking "the ignored" down to throw insults at him. How do you justify that as not being trollish? Just wondering.


Tracking down? I'm usually on the thread before that loser shows up. So who follows who?

And constantly writes about? I think I've mentioned it twice, maybe three times.
But your comment is pretty much what I expect from you. You don't disappoint me boy.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shouldn't this be handled by userrel (or whatever it is now..) Considering I have been refered to userrel for less and by non Gentoo users (for their own agenda) seems odd to tolerate such defamatory threads like this.. Ie left open
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
Tracking down? I'm usually on the thread before that loser shows up. So who follows who?


A cat-and-mouse game is beyond my interest.

Anon-E-moose wrote:
And constantly writes about? I think I've mentioned it twice, maybe three times.


What do those writings achieve in the context of those threads?

Naib wrote:
Shouldn't this be handled by userrel (or whatever it is now..) Considering I have been refered to userrel for less and by non Gentoo users (for their own agenda) seems odd to tolerate such defamatory threads like this.. Ie left open


Higher instances are only to be addressed when lower instances refuse to talk and/or cooperate; there might be exceptions, but I doubt they apply here.


Last edited by TomWij on Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
Shouldn't this be handled by userrel (or whatever it is now..)


Well this was actually spit off from another thread, it's not like it was started standalone.
I have no problem with it being locked, I also don't have a problem if they just want to delete it.
But it's nothing I can anything about though.

I was happy enough to leave it alone, and just happened to glance at it because it showed up as having a new post.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

im kinda partial to bannings. we should round up all the usual suspects, then make them place bets on horse racing, and all trolls purged except winners. we cultivate their skills of predicting the future until we can double or nothing the treasury. i get the impression of "this is 8 year olds fighting."

"I have been refered to userrel for less and by non Gentoo users" savages. who reports a puppy?
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