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TomWij
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

666threesixes666 wrote:
im kinda partial to bannings. we should round up all the usual suspects, then make them place bets on horse racing, and all trolls purged except winners. we cultivate their skills of predicting the future until we can double or nothing the treasury. i get the impression of "this is 8 year olds fighting."

"I have been refered to userrel for less and by non Gentoo users" savages. who reports a puppy?


Why predict the future if you can make it happen? :wink:
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

666threesixes666 wrote:
i get the impression of "this is 8 year olds fighting."


I'll state my views about things just this once.

I like to help people with technical problems, that's why I'm here.
I've been on forums before where the level of troll expertise is much higher, so it's no big deal here.

If someone wants to have a serious conversation, then I have no problem with that.
If someone wants to spout useless BS or play the trolling game, then I'll simply bounce the ball back in their court.
Their choice not mine. I like being a mirror.

I understood what Yamakuzure was doing just as much as I understand what TomWij's goals are.
I'm not a fool, and I don't think that many that read these threads are either.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

666threesixes666 wrote:
who reports a puppy?
It's because it's really hard to whack you with a rolled up newspaper over the Internet. ;)

- John
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Naib
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

666threesixes666 wrote:
im kinda partial to bannings. we should round up all the usual suspects, then make them place bets on horse racing, and all trolls purged except winners. we cultivate their skills of predicting the future until we can double or nothing the treasury. i get the impression of "this is 8 year olds fighting."

"I have been refered to userrel for less and by non Gentoo users" savages. who reports a puppy?
palutards... go search b.g.o they are a funny few :)
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TomWij
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
If someone wants to have a serious conversation, then I have no problem with that.
If someone wants to spout useless BS or play the trolling game, then I'll simply bounce the ball back in their court.
Their choice not mine. I like being a mirror.


Me too, as you need to be with two persons to play a ball game; oh look, we've got a tunnel of reflections now.

Though, it is time to stop assuming of each other that we're trolling or that we're typing useless and/or BS posts; otherwise we'll miss the ball in a future turn, and that will cause broken mirrors...
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Yamakuzure
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
Yamakuzure wrote:
Anon-E-moose wrote:
As far as ignoring, I use greasemonkey and a phpBB user blocker script.
You know, for someone who constantly writes about their oh-so-cool ignore-the-Tom-script, everywhere in any other thread, you are very obstinate in tracking "the ignored" down to throw insults at him. How do you justify that as not being trollish? Just wondering.


Tracking down? I'm usually on the thread before that loser shows up. So who follows who?
Don't play possum, you know what I mean.
Anon-E-moose wrote:
And constantly writes about? I think I've mentioned it twice, maybe three times.
Aha... Just a quick google search:
one, two, three and four. (Page 2 of 10)
... could it be that you slightly lost track? Seriously?

Anon-E-moose wrote:
But your comment is pretty much what I expect from you. You don't disappoint me boy.
How can you expect anything if you do not know me? I was born in 1976, so calling me "boy" is already somewhat rich all by itself. ;) (Why do you assume that I am male anyway? This is the internet! :twisted: ) But apart from that, it was just another much-talk-no-say quote. Let's stop that.
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamakuzure wrote:
I was born in 1976, so calling me "boy" is already somewhat rich all by itself. ;)


I could have easily said youngster, or whatever, it wasn't a putdown, I just knew you were younger.
( I just didn't feel like going back and changing the wording) :roll:

76, I had already graduated, been in and out of the service by that time.
I've been playing with computers since you had to enter your programs with punch cards.
And a small computer took up a good sized room. So pardon me for being around for a while.

3, 4 not much difference. But if you want to count them all up, go for it.

I know you by your posts, by your passive-aggressive posting style, your I'll hide being a troll demeanor.
What you don't like is that I understand you far better than you understand me.
So yeah, let's stop that. ;)
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
Shouldn't this be handled by userrel (or whatever it is now..) Considering I have been refered to userrel for less and by non Gentoo users (for their own agenda) seems odd to tolerate such defamatory threads like this.. Ie left open
The moderators handle such things on the forums. Alas our toolkit is one of marked escalations: from nothing visible to others, to direct contact, to public admonition, to banning. Which leaves little ground between a public request to stop swatting at one another and banning the involved parties, however helpful they might otherwise be.
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aCOSwt
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yamakuzure wrote:
@aCOSwt: I do not understand your remark about the meaning of "to perceive sth [as sth]". I looked it up in dict.leo.org, and it has 7 different (but somewhat related) meanings in german, and neither explains why you state that "We necessarily percieve your goal as different!" - could you please explain your demand to non-native english speakers, please? I'd be very grateful, and maybe others, too.

I apologize for being so late to reply. My personal interest in this thread had... drop soon after my contribution. :roll:
For some reason, that I'll keep secret... my interest has risen again... :idea:

OK, so, among the 7 tracks you were suggested when searching.
Follow the one having a direct link with "Der Wille zur Macht"
You should be able to catch exactly what I meant... in your preferred language. 8)

TomWij wrote:
it is time to stop assuming of each other that we're trolling or that we're typing useless and/or BS posts; otherwise we'll miss the ball in a future turn

ExACTly!
I 101% agree with this. This is ! Wise !

If we, well... I do not mean anyone personally here, well... I mean I could find hundred examples taken at random...

Let's say... JRG... I hope to have a new avatar over the Christmas holidays.... If, let's say, I stopped assuming he's trolling... or... if he actually stopped typing BS posts... maybe we could expect... recording some progress... :twisted:

OK,OK... I might be going too far out of topic.

Oh wait... what's the topic then ? TomWij ? TomWij you said is the topic ?
OK, if you say so...
Back to topic then :

Let's say... TomWij... If... let's say, If TomWij actually stopped typing BS posts... maybe... maybe... I could expect...
BUG502442 TO BE CLOSED RESOLVED FIXED :evil:
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666threesixes666
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomWij wrote:
666threesixes666 wrote:
im kinda partial to bannings. we should round up all the usual suspects, then make them place bets on horse racing, and all trolls purged except winners. we cultivate their skills of predicting the future until we can double or nothing the treasury. i get the impression of "this is 8 year olds fighting."

"I have been refered to userrel for less and by non Gentoo users" savages. who reports a puppy?


Why predict the future if you can make it happen? :wink:


are you suggesting i whack horses nancy kerrigan style to fix the races tom? you're evil... genius, but evil.... i like that :twisted:
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 12:45 am    Post subject: JRG's Space Shuttle coating progress Reply with quote

aCOSwt wrote:
Oh wait... what's the topic then ? TomWij ? TomWij you said is the topic ?
OK, if you say so...
Back to topic then :

Let's say... TomWij... If... let's say, If TomWij actually stopped typing BS posts... maybe... maybe... I could expect...
BUG502442 TO BE CLOSED RESOLVED FIXED :evil:


Let's see... aCOSwt... If... let's say, If aCOSwt actually started typing BFS posts... maybe... maybe... maybe... I could see...
BUG502442 LOOKS TO BE CLOSED RESOLVED FIXED. :D

666threesixes666 wrote:
are you suggesting i whack horses nancy kerrigan style to fix the races tom? you're evil... genius, but evil.... i like that :twisted:


Imma suggest Griffith 4OC to fix that; perhaps we're talking about another Kerrigan, but close enough... I like that :D
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomWij wrote:
Let's see... aCOSwt... If... let's say, If aCOSwt actually started typing BFS posts... maybe... maybe... maybe... I could see...
BUG502442 LOOKS TO BE CLOSED RESOLVED FIXED. :D

:D
Of course, as usual, I am probably the first one who can feel concerned by my own posts.

OK then... 2 rivets later... what about JRG... :?:

BTW, thanks a lot Tom for fixing this one... I knew I'd have fallen into trouble if I let enough time for the usual commiters to react... and the 3.4 would have been... definitely screwed-up.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:27 pm    Post subject: TomWij Reply with quote

TomWij wrote:
The topic was already split off from a topic; so, we all were that already from the very start (hence we're being watched by JRG!). History repeats...

So split it off then: this topic was a report about your behaviour, which you clearly didn't like having your name on it. Integrity would require you to follow your own proscriptions to others, and indeed to change the title back to your nick, since that is what this is about.
Quote:
However, this particular topic now has a poll; splitting it off would invalidate the votes, which are quite important!

You should be a politician.
TomWij wrote:
Though, let's not go way off-topic; we should concentrate on JRG's whooshing space shuttle's coating. The coating might have an excellent aerodynamic property, that might be why it's hard to pull pictures of it...

Yes, humour can often be used to deflect. Unfortunately I've seen it all before: nor am I joking about this. The report was me seeking an alternative to comrel/proctors, since I think we can sort the misunderstandings of the last six months or so out like adults. Contacting you on IRC didn't work, so this is the next step.

Please take it seriously, as my concerns have been expressed consistently to you for several months: and yet you always just argue in circles, and never acknowledge points made, except as lead-ins to your points, chasing the tail of the last one with no real acceptance or demonstrated understanding of points made to you, nor what deep offence you have caused, and how.

By all means, let's talk informally. But let's not pretend this is a discussion about anything other than your behaviour. Not anyone else's, and not about off-topic jokes that you spin into a thread.
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TomWij
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:52 pm    Post subject: Re: TomWij Reply with quote

steveL wrote:
TomWij wrote:
The topic was already split off from a topic; so, we all were that already from the very start (hence we're being watched by JRG!). History repeats...

So split it off then: this topic was a report about your behaviour, which you clearly didn't like having your name on it. Integrity would require you to follow your own proscriptions to others, and indeed to change the title back to your nick, since that is what this is about.


The topic (made by its first post) was a report about the behavior of someone else; if I would change the topic back, it be to actually reflect what this is all about.

steveL wrote:
Quote:
However, this particular topic now has a poll; splitting it off would invalidate the votes, which are quite important!

You should be a politician.


You should be a teacher.

steveL wrote:
TomWij wrote:
Though, let's not go way off-topic; we should concentrate on JRG's whooshing space shuttle's coating. The coating might have an excellent aerodynamic property, that might be why it's hard to pull pictures of it...

Yes, humour can often be used to deflect. Unfortunately I've seen it all before: nor am I joking about this. The report was me seeking an alternative to comrel/proctors, since I think we can sort the misunderstandings of the last six months or so out like adults. Contacting you on IRC didn't work, so this is the next step.


Lecturing someone in private like that rarely works, just as we have seen that in this very thread things aren't sorted out under adults when there are mentions of childishness similar to the mentions of art school you have made; try to see me as an equal person, not as your student or child, then it might sort itself out. Until then, I'll continue to absorb the intellectual humour as the child I am pretended to be...

steveL wrote:
Please take it seriously, as my concerns have been expressed consistently to you for several months: and yet you always just argue in circles, and never acknowledge points made, except as lead-ins to your points, chasing the tail of the last one with no real acceptance or demonstrated understanding of points made to you, nor what deep offence you have caused, and how.

By all means, let's talk informally. But let's not pretend this is a discussion about anything other than your behaviour. Not anyone else's, and not about off-topic jokes that you spin into a thread.


Can we make a thread with your name? Who is next? Having threads about individuals is a joke; as can be seen by the candy, puppies and invisible coating spun into the thread by others. I'm just absorbing the spoon fed joke...
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:10 pm    Post subject: Re: TomWij Reply with quote

TomWij wrote:
steveL wrote:
this topic was a report about your behaviour, which you clearly didn't like having your name on it. Integrity would require you to follow your own proscriptions to others, and indeed to change the title back to your nick, since that is what this is about.

The topic (made by its first post) was a report about the behavior of someone else; if I would change the topic back, it be to actually reflect what this is all about.

That is such utter nonsense and you know it. The only reason it was split with your post, is I commented after it, complaining about your consistent overuse of the reporting mechanism, whereby for about 6 months or so that I've been aware of, you have constantly reported people, acting as if this were a University debating chamber, and pedantically pulling in the CoC and the rules of netiquette, when trust me your netiquette is frankly woeful imo. You wouldn't have lasted 10 minutes in ##bash in the old days without greycat SHOUTING AT YOU TO GROW A BRAIN. He's a lot mellower nowadays, thankfully, likely because he's in #bash less.

The moderators split it and put your name on the topic. You used your "power to bend its topic"[1] inappropriately, shortly after sallaven pointed out that there was a thread with your name on in the feedback forum, since you've offended so many people with your persistent pseudo-intellectual waffle that delights in wordplay, but has very little understanding of real-world implementation, and indeed refuses to even acknowledge what the other party is saying. You simply take the words and apparently spout off the first association they make in your head, leading to exasperated developers on the ML, as well as users on the forums.
Quote:
steveL wrote:
Quote:
However, this particular topic now has a poll; splitting it off would invalidate the votes, which are quite important!

You should be a politician.

You should be a teacher.

And in that light, you should think about what I'm saying with that statement, instead of glibly snapping back a rejoinder.
You're using political techniques, and yes those are allowed in debate, but this isn't a debating chamber. It's our downtime forums, where sometimes we talk crap, but usually with good intent to all other Gentoo users, even if we rib each other. You come into it and try to push agendas, which you claim is "pushing Gentoo forward" and because it's all new to you, you cannot bear the idea that we've seen and heard it all before. As I said to you on IRC, we have to deal with this crap in our work all day, every day. Most of us don't want to deal with it in our downtime as well.

And no: I should be a programmer. It's what I've been doing for over 30 years, with the odd break, and no I don't think that makes me special. There's an awful lot of people round here with decades more experience than I have.
Quote:
steveL wrote:
Yes, humour can often be used to deflect. Unfortunately I've seen it all before: nor am I joking about this. The report was me seeking an alternative to comrel/proctors, since I think we can sort the misunderstandings of the last six months or so out like adults. Contacting you on IRC didn't work, so this is the next step.

Lecturing someone in private like that rarely works, just as we have seen that in this very thread things aren't sorted out under adults when there are mentions of childishness similar to the mentions of art school you have made; try to see me as an equal person, not as your student or child, then it might sort itself out. Until then, I'll continue to absorb the intellectual humour as the child I am pretended to be...

Lol. Communication only happens between equals. It's a core tenet of Communication Studies. When I explain something, I do it with the expectation that the other party is my equal, they just have a different set of experiences than I do. All the explanation is, is a discussion of how each side sees it: their perspective on the problem. It requires a thinking mind on the other side of the conversation, which is actually trying to absorb the meaning, and take in the other party's viewpoint. That's why a large part of this is the ack side, to acknowledge what the other person is saying, even if one doesn't agree with it. So I'm sorry you feel like I've spoken down to you: with respect, that's what happens when you're out of your depth and you don't know it. Stop trying to bluster through, and just STFU once in a while, just like the rest of us do, and let others discuss: you might learn something.

As for the art school mention, I was just using an experience from my life to illustrate the point that your output is not you. Most computer programmers should know that already, since they spend most of their time correcting their own output. So if someone slates something I write, I don't particularly care: in fact I'm the first one to tell them "well done" for redoing it better than I did it. But the first question is "does it work correctly?" As I've likely written a basic draft just to get the job done, and my only concern there has been it working correctly for the consumer code. I'll come back and redo it when I have some time, at which point a simple review usually shows me several clean-ups. But if someone else does it in the meantime, great: less work for me. I'll be the first to appreciate it, especially if it does it with less code.

Clearly you prefer being lectured in public; that's why I reported you, and that's why this thread was split off: about you. You appear to be displaying persecution complex in this post. Consider instead that some very experienced people are taking time out of their lives to pay you attention, so that we can all get on better. They wouldn't do that if they thought there was no merit in you. I for one would never have bothered to contact you on IRC.
Quote:
steveL wrote:
Please take it seriously, as my concerns have been expressed consistently to you for several months: and yet you always just argue in circles, and never acknowledge points made, except as lead-ins to your points, chasing the tail of the last one with no real acceptance or demonstrated understanding of points made to you, nor what deep offence you have caused, and how.

By all means, let's talk informally. But let's not pretend this is a discussion about anything other than your behaviour. Not anyone else's, and not about off-topic jokes that you spin into a thread.

Can we make a thread with your name? Who is next? Having threads about individuals is a joke; as can be seen by the candy, puppies and invisible coating spun into the thread by others. I'm just absorbing the spoon fed joke...

Ah I see what you're doing there: now it's about a campaign of persecution, and let's raise the spectre of "Who's next?"

Who is "we"? You're not a moderator last time I checked, and nor am I. So where's this "Who is next?" coming from: it wasn't me who split this into a thread. You appear to be trying to imply your dev badge gives you moderator status, or some sort of clout on the forums. It doesn't: we're all just yammering users to the mods.

Thanks for taking my words seriously, and demonstrating how little good faith you show, all the while insisting on it (and all other courtesies you can grab from any source) for yourself.

From where I'm sitting, right now you're the one persecuting other users on these forums with constant use of the Report button, and wasting a lot of moderator time, effectively in crying to momma, instead of taking your lumps.

How about you just answer points people put to you, instead of thinking up witty ways to throw the words back? That's something you need to work on over a period of months: it's not something to intellectualise about, nor snap rejoinders around. It's not an intellectual problem: it's one of approach or attitude.

Get down off your high horse: it is in fact a wooden toy, pueris ;-) (SCNR: shouldn't have told me I should be a teacher. Much as I respect them, I am a coder.)
desultory wrote:
Considering the discussion at hand, dismissing his commentary about you as "stated by a random individual out of the blue" rather strongly indicates that you have not been following along, and that you have certainly not been following your advice with respect to considering alternate viewpoints.

Consider your posts here and in various topics regarding systemd, and to a lesser extent other topics as well. You consistently attempt linguistic gymnastics that are evidently not quite within your grasp. You react defensively or dismissively to any criticism even to the point of asking for discussion of your social impedance mismatches with various others to be removed from public view. Probably worst of all, you consistently feed unproductive discussions, especially when they become circular or attract what others here have described as trolls.
[2]
I'd go further and say you appear to delight in making discussions circular. Whether that's malicious or simple immaturity is not my concern. My concern is simply that you stop it as it's painful to read, painful to participate in, and totally utterly useless. It moves nothing forward, but wastes an awful lot of experienced time. I've never ever seen steev get riled with anyone before. That really took some doing.

One last question: how many reports (apart from wrt spam) have you made in the last year on the forums? Because you're the first person I recall reporting (that wasn't a spammer) in 7 years on these forums.

If that doesn't get through to you, then by all means carry on deluding yourself that this is a persecution, and not an intervention.
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TomWij
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:45 pm    Post subject: Re: TomWij Reply with quote

steveL wrote:
That is such utter nonsense and you know it.


If you say so.

steveL wrote:
And in that light, you should think about what I'm saying with that statement, instead of glibly snapping back a rejoinder.


You know that I am here to listen and support, as detailed in this thread; bringing up politics is thus met with rejoinder, as that rejoinder will yield a better understanding.

steveL wrote:
Lol. Communication only happens between equals. It's a core tenet of Communication Studies.


Communication studies have a narrow view on communication as a whole; for instance, they leave out the existence of inter-species studies. Given the narrow view, they restrict it to only happen between equals; whereas in reality, it happens between people whom differ too (eg. by culture, belief, ...).

steveL wrote:
As for the art school mention, I was just using an experience from my life to illustrate the point that your output is not you.


Yes, and I agree with that, when reporting I sometimes make it clear it is about the content; consider how making this clear in a teaching style where I am assumed to not know it comes over.

steveL wrote:
Clearly you prefer being lectured in public; that's why I reported you, and that's why this thread was split off: about you.


This thread is about all of us involved, as you need multiple people to have a discussion; we're all in this lesson together, as equals. We are the ones reported and split off.

steveL wrote:
Ah I see what you're doing there: now it's about a campaign of persecution, and let's raise the spectre of "Who's next?"

Who is "we"?


The community; or to be more exact, a part of it.

steveL wrote:
You're not a moderator last time I checked, and nor am I. So where's this "Who is next?" coming from: it wasn't me who split this into a thread. You appear to be trying to imply your dev badge gives you moderator status, or some sort of clout on the forums. It doesn't: we're all just yammering users to the mods.


That implication that I am or want to be a moderator is your assumption; as I stated before, I am just another user.

steveL wrote:
Thanks for taking my words seriously


No problem.

steveL wrote:
Consider your posts here and in various topics regarding systemd, and to a lesser extent other topics as well.


This is what I ask of you to do, as I know what I have written; read what has been written there and reconsider it, you have yet to discover the listening support that is brought to the community.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know what ?

For the first time in my life, I am feeling : Old!

A couple of very simple things are just simply becoming : Above my forces!

Well above my forces!

Thanks to JRG for having helped... me.
Sorry for having more than obviously : failed!
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aCOSwt, I apologize (although I did appreciate the whimsy—very much). I've attempted to clean this thread up as I bevieve that it is at least partially a serious discussion about (possible) trolls, (potentially too light) moderation, and the etiquette of technical discussion. I truly believe that everyone participating on this thread is passionate about Gentoo. I also believe that if you've never been accused of being a troll, you're probably not participating very frequently.

Those that wish to talk about Space Shuttle anti-corrosion coatings, may do so here.

Serious question. Are there more viewpoints to air here?

- John
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aCOSwt
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John R. Graham wrote:
Are there more viewpoints to air here?

Yess !
Mine !
And this time, verbi gratia !

Why do I feel the need to put words where I was intentionally avoiding them ?

Because the situation apparently makes knowledgeable contributors (at least at this time Paul Bredbury) go away.
And if contributors like PaulBredbury go away, a couple of others of the kind will act identically.

PaulBredbury wrote:
So, in summary, I'm off to better-moderated forums


And what is that situation ?

The situation is that... as I already said : I am getting old !

Ha bha !

The real truth worded as things actually are : A couple of contributors here around should definitely : Grow up !
Push me just a little bit and, I'll name them.

@SteveL particularly (because he reported that thread for going off topic with JRG's anti-corrosion system) and all the others that have no ears to hear :

Grow up !

Grow up means exactly nothing but : Stop judging automatically instantly ! Stop jumping on appearances ! Stop pushing the report button just because YOU are convinced that a cat is a cat !
Only children act that way!
Instead : Suspend your judgement ! Suspend it ! Question ! Question the point before judging !

I was honestly confident that your intelligence would guide you this way.
I failed.
What was I expecting ?
A little, just the little bit of credit I thought I deserved.

I was expecting you (and several others as well) to question :

- How comes aCOSwt can push that thread so far from the topic ?
- How comes JRG, admin, continues in aCOSwt direction, pushing so blattantly the thread out of topic ?
- How comes Akkara, another admin, continues in the same direction ?

Have these 3 individuals gone suddenly mad ? Can't these 3 individuals realise what they are doing ? OR am I victim of some illusion ?
Victim of wheighting too much the explicit part and... totally... ignoring the implicit part ?

Stop overestimating your own judgement. Only children do that.

Please notice that I had taken great care to put much emphasis to colours, font size, smilies... => The form was important ! => The implicit content exists !

So please : GROW UP AND READ !

How did I proceed ?

1/ I want to tell something to TomWij. And... look for... an alibi !
2/ I find some thread which summary mentions TomWij, (alibi)
3/ I extract from what Tomwij writes a little part from which I can bump, (alibi)
4/ I care not to make things too much personal and involve some innocent passing by (JRG) (alibi)
5/ I incidentally say what I wanted to say.

And the result is ? : What you complained about : The thread is, apparently, completely derailed.

The scheme I described above is nothing but, what a couple of contributors here around are following when they get something to say and complain against when what is said is different from what they wanted to say.
OK, my attempt was just a little : exagerated.
Was I ridiculous acting that way ? Yes for sure !

If you want to say something, fair enough, open a topic and say it : You are free !
Simply refrain from bumping on an existing topic, extracting phrases from others just in order to say what you want to say. What you want to say whatever its cleverness, intelligence... aso, in this context is necessarily : Irrelevant ! Irrelevant because the context only serves the alibi.

Your opinion matters, but : Not to me !

Period!

@mods&admins : My opinion is that real posts such as my exagerated one should be modded. Especially if the OP is explicitely asking for.

EDIT : Oh, I had forgotten, unusually : If anyone finds anything offensive in what I wrote, be aware that : It is meant !
If anyone reads anything meant personally, then, be aware : It is meant personally !
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Anon-E-moose
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would certainly be nice to see the people abusing the reporting thread re: asking for people they disagree with to be banned
to be banned themselves. The same applies for the continued call for threads to be locked because they can't prevent others
from having opinions contrary to theirs. I don't care who they are. It's just another attempt at trolling IMO.

And I'm against banning in general. But enough is enough.

I could have posted this there, but didn't really want to pollute it any more than it is being.

And yes, I'll probably have a few ask for me being banned "again" for having an opinion and stating it. So be it.


Edit to add: I don't really want people to be banned, but they need to stop it.
And obviously they aren't listening even when the mods/admins are speaking to them.
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Last edited by Anon-E-moose on Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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steveL
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:09 pm    Post subject: Re: TomWij Reply with quote

TomWij wrote:
<snip class="tit for tat">
steveL wrote:
As for the art school mention, I was just using an experience from my life to illustrate the point that your output is not you.

Yes, and I agree with that, when reporting I sometimes make it clear it is about the content; consider how making this clear in a teaching style where I am assumed to not know it comes over.

A) You do know it by now. It's been explained to you several times, so you simply cannot claim ignorance of the point anymore.
B) I'm not your teacher. I'm here on my downtime, as I keep trying to get you to see.

Yet you continually pick apart every little sentence, and ignore the content. It looks like defensive posturing, more than anything else, and it's simply not needed. Just chill out.
Quote:
steveL wrote:
Clearly you prefer being lectured in public; that's why I reported you, and that's why this thread was split off: about you.

This thread is about all of us involved, as you need multiple people to have a discussion; we're all in this lesson together, as equals. We are the ones reported and split off.

Hah, nice try. No I reported an issue about you, and the God-knows-how-many (non-spam) users you have reported in the last year, as well as the offence it causes, especially when coupled with the kind of behaviour that drove steev (of all people!) to get so fed up with chasing your tail that he simply called your whole discussion "bullshit".
Quote:
steveL wrote:
You're not a moderator last time I checked, and nor am I. So where's this "Who is next?" coming from: it wasn't me who split this into a thread. You appear to be trying to imply your dev badge gives you moderator status, or some sort of clout on the forums. It doesn't: we're all just yammering users to the mods.

That implication that I am or want to be a moderator is your assumption; as I stated before, I am just another user.

And again you're deliberately being obtuse, afaic, as you're plenty smart enough to work out what my point was: your use of "we" in that context, was much more indicative of a threat, in the same way that you snidely tried to bring up a comrel issue last year. So I wasn't assuming you want to be a moderator as you well know: I was stating that you use your Gentoo badge inappropriately, hinting at action based upon your "clout as a dev" when forum moderators couldn't give a damn about it.

Further you implied it was somehow my initiative to split out a thread with your name on it ("Who's next?"), when in fact the moderators clearly felt that there was an issue to discuss. After all, how many non-spam complaints was it you've filed again?

Yes, it was my initiative to report you, in the same way you have reported so many of us. I've been hoping for ages, that you would have absorbed the content of this post, since it's been discussed with you twice in private, and the same overarching points made in public, and that you would simply lay off reporting every thread you think might possibly have an issue with it, or at least an argument could be made.. lalala.
Quote:
steveL wrote:
Thanks for taking my words seriously

No problem.

That was sarcasm. Sorry forget you're not a native english speaker sometimes, so should have labelled it such.
Quote:
steveL wrote:
Consider your posts here and in various topics regarding systemd, and to a lesser extent other topics as well.

This is what I ask of you to do, as I know what I have written; read what has been written there and reconsider it, you have yet to discover the listening support that is brought to the community.

Oh gack. I've been using that support for god knows how long, and contributing back to it on these forums pretty much since the beginning of that time. Please, save the vague words no-one can disagree with for a political discussion, when you finally realise your calling. </sarcasm>

Again: consider your posts, and your behaviour over the last 6 months, on the forums and on the mailing-lists, in the light of not what i've said, but what desultory has said, steev has written, and the other devs have told you, some of whom I know damn well talk of you as "the crazy belgian". You are not like this on IRC, so there may be something to do with the fact that forums and mailing-lists are archived, that makes you defensive. Just a theory, certainly one borne out by your attempted hijack of this thread, and your insistence that it's not really about you, even though the mods labelled it exactly that, and even though I keep telling you it is. That isn't an attack either: it's much easier to let go of IRC because you don't see the old arguments, when you come back.

Yes it's about others, in that we (and they and you) are part of the same community. But you're the one who's had quite a few users pm'ing each other wondering wtf is going on, as you're the one making copious reports about various other users, and you're the one driving everyone to distraction with circular reasoning (always ending on argument about definitions, of the basics) not just on the forums but on the list. Deal with it, please.

Sometimes a few weeks off does a power of good. In time you'll actually see you get more said if you post less, not more. For one thing, it means you get a much better sense of what others outside your immediate argument think. They tend not to if they see a flamewar going on, and sorry but that's exactly what you've been causing with your rapid responses and apparent lack of thinking, as opposed to verbiage.

And like I said on IRC: you are not alone. We've all been through this in one way or another; just check my history on the dev ML to see that I've made my fair share of archived mistakes. It's easy to when you think it'd be rude not to respond; after a while you realise you were getting caught up in the moment, and in fact you post better when you leave time between posts. That's why I now make it a rule never to post to the ML more than twice in one day. And nine times out of ten I just read it without posting anything.

Many people go thru this first on IRC: they're luckier than us. We have to live with our mistakes every time we try to review the history of some issue. Ah well, that's life; we're not the only ones, and there'll be even more in future as every one uses the web to IM. As I said to you before, nowadays we do our growing up in public, effectively: and it's bloody well-archived! ;x

I won't post again to this thread, unless you specifically ask me to. Answering my points is fine and your prerogative, but unless you actually write @steveL: ....? I'll assume you're just using that prerogative to get your feelings/views on the record.

Hopefully you don't think I'm out to get you now. If you still do, please try to accept you are wrong, and if not, good luck with everything; let's just agree never to respond to each other, except indirectly when responding to someone else who wants to discuss w/e the other party has said. It would certainly save me a lot of time.
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steveL
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@aCOSwt: I understood the attempts to deflect into humour, however i did not appreciate them. Sorry, but I wanted to get this resolved.

If you don't think it matters, then by all means, ignore the bloody thread.
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TomWij
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steveL wrote:
Yet you continually pick apart every little sentence, and ignore the content.


Given long posts, their content often gets ignored by limited time; that's why only certain sentences are responded to.

steveL wrote:
Hah, nice try. No I reported an issue about you, and the God-knows-how-many (non-spam) users you have reported in the last year, as well as the offence it causes, especially when coupled with the kind of behaviour that drove steev (of all people!) to get so fed up with chasing your tail that he simply called your whole discussion "bullshit".


Reporting is a normal action when forum guidelines are to be followed; the very report you quote in the start of this thread has been acted on by a moderator, whom left both of you a message. The other user (and perhaps others) reported in that report is back on track with the forum guidelines, given that he keeps it that way I'm totally fine with him; however, you (and perhaps others) seem to continue to want to stir the pot.

steev is fine with me; he has exhausted his opinion such that we ended up in a loop, he went further than that to get things to happen. A large part of that discussion is based on steev misunderstanding of a policy as acknowledged by others; that policy we've then revised, among other useful results that thread has lead to. People can claim things to be an offence, as well as things to be "bullshit"; but in the end of the day, people will understand they misunderstood as I outlined in this thread and useful results will be achieved.

Similarly, other users whose content were reported are also fine with me, some even discussing in private with me; just like you once were, and I hope you to be again as soon as you see this thread is about all of us.

steveL wrote:
your use of "we" in that context, was much more indicative of a threat


Is it about the community.

steveL wrote:
in the same way that you snidely tried to bring up a comrel issue last year. So I wasn't assuming you want to be a moderator as you well know: I was stating that you use your Gentoo badge inappropriately, hinting at action based upon your "clout as a dev" when forum moderators couldn't give a damn about it.


It is about finding someone whom is available and wants to inform me, an inquiry is appropriate; the forum moderators do care; bringing up a ComRel issue requires filing a bug.

steveL wrote:
Further you implied it was somehow my initiative to split out a thread with your name on it ("Who's next?")


The implication is that you agree with it; whether it is an initiative, that is for you to decide.

steveL wrote:
Yes, it was my initiative to report you, in the same way you have reported so many of us.


If that is your initiative; then report my content in function of the forum guidelines, rather than just stating your thoughts about me.

steveL wrote:
</sarcasm>


Serious understanding and resolution is distracted by malicious pleasure.

steveL wrote:
Again


Again? Our discussion loop is already out there, in our previous posts; to spare us from repeating, let's rely on the thought that one or the both of us eventually thinks this through.
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Yamakuzure
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me recap for all those who do not have the time to read all of your extra long posts:

<steveL> A B C
<TomWiJ> B? D E
<steveL> NO! A C
<TomWiJ> D? E? F!
<steveL> A B C A B C!
...
and so on.

Are you two sure you *really* talk about the same thing in the first place? I have often witnessed (and found myself in) such discussion loops that were simply based on not understanding that the very other simply has a different starting point (and thus opinion) about what only seems to be the same matter, when it is not.

To make this (hopefully!) a bit clearer:
steveL wrote:
TomWiJ wrote:
consider how making this clear in a teaching style
B) I'm not your teacher.
Do I need to explain why this (as a tiny little example out of many) is already enough to show why your dialogue is going at cross-purposes for ages now and is (sorry) completely FUBAR?

I mean, come on. "Consider your posts" versus "No, consider your posts" should have been enough to:
stop ... and then start over somewhere else...

This is not getting anybody anywhere.
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