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Turns out non-Africans are more like 20% Neanderthal
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:32 pm    Post subject: Turns out non-Africans are more like 20% Neanderthal Reply with quote

The scientific consensus for the last five years or so has been that Neanderthal genes make up from 1% to 3% of the human genome for non-Africans (i.e., descendants of Europeans or Asians). Advanced whole-sequence analysis has now shown that figure to be more like 20%. These are population-level averages and vary widely at individual level.

The difference in the figures stems from the new capability for scientists to interpolate the genetic sequences of extinct lineages for which no fossil specimen exists. In other words, we knew that 1% to 3% matched DNA taken from Neanderthal fossils, but analysis of our genome pointed to the existence of yet-undiscovered Neanderthal genetic lines. A newly-discovered fossil provided the opportunity to test that theory, and it matched, indicating that the rest of the predicted Neanderthal lines are very likely to have existed as well (in addition to being present in the DNA of modern humans).

http://www.sciencerecorder.com/news/researchers-find-neanderthal-genes-in-modern-humans/
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

em, you misread that article. A lot.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are giving him too much credit. I don't think he is able to read.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once again, its really hard to know anything for sure. I appreciated the article a lot for not throwing so many numbers at me. You really can't make these conclusions though because we don't know what the normal range of neanderthal dna was and we don't know how many things were really different to begin with. We also don't know enough about what human dna was like before breeding with neaderthals. You can't just assume that africans are pure original homo sapiens either(although its a lot more likely).
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
em, you misread that article. A lot.

Read their paper. Or, if you prefer to be in denial, that's okay with me as well.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

porodzila wrote:
Once again, its really hard to know anything for sure. I appreciated the article a lot for not throwing so many numbers at me. You really can't make these conclusions though because we don't know what the normal range of neanderthal dna was and we don't know how many things were really different to begin with. We also don't know enough about what human dna was like before breeding with neaderthals. You can't just assume that africans are pure original homo sapiens either(although its a lot more likely).

Nobody knows anything "for sure". We only have our perceptions.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
em, you misread that article. A lot.

Read their paper. Or, if you prefer to be in denial, that's okay with me as well.


reread it. Please. You are so wrong at the moment it hurts.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you under the impression that H. sapiens and H. neanderthalensis have genomes of different lengths? If 20% of the Neanderthal genome is present in ours, then 20% of our genome is Neanderthal. While the portion of it that is present in any particular individual will be less and will vary, the fact is that 20% of the overall human genome (for the population) is Neanderthal. I don't see how you could be confused about this, given that I pointed it out in my original post.

Furthermore, now that the portions of our genome which were only speculatively attributed to Neanderthal have been identified with some degree of confidence, it is in fact very likely that the amount of Neanderthal DNA in any particular individual is much higher than the 1% to 3% being currently attributed.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This article doesn't explain where Neanderthals came from ... if they came from Africa you are still a black mutant even with 20% Neanderthal blood :-) An hybrid between two black mutants more exactly ....
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

:lol:

Yes, they had a common ancestor (perhaps H. ergaster), but had a hundred thousand years of evolution in very different climates.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you take 20% of the DNA of the population of 100 Neaderthals and you spread those 20 units out over 1000 Sapiens who don't necessarily have to have any amount of it then the percent is only 2%. right?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
:lol:

Yes, they had a common ancestor (perhaps H. ergaster), but had a hundred thousand years of evolution in very different climates.

An hybrid between 20% of a black mutant that had a hundred thousand years of evolution in a very different climate and 80% of a different black mutant, hybrid that kept evolving in a very different climate. Does it sounds better now?

This reminds me a quote from Spike Lee film "blacks are the superior race because blacks can give birth to whites while whites can not generate blacks" ......
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You misread it
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

porodzila wrote:
If you take 20% of the DNA of the population of 100 Neaderthals and you spread those 20 units out over 1000 Sapiens who don't necessarily have to have any amount of it then the percent is only 2%. right?

If you exclude the possibility of any redundancy, which is not the case.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
:lol:

Yes, they had a common ancestor (perhaps H. ergaster), but had a hundred thousand years of evolution in very different climates.

An hybrid between 20% of a black mutant that had a hundred thousand years of evolution in a very different climate and 80% of a different black mutant, hybrid that kept evolving in a very different climate. Does it sounds better now?

Somewhat better. You need to replace "black" with "early African human species". It's most likely that species was not black and was hairy (for example, like a chimp or bonobo). The hair loss and pigmentation probably came about as a result of the glacial period, which froze Eurasia and desertified Africa.
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Last edited by Bones McCracker on Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Homo Neanderthalis actually had slightly larger brains on average than Homo Sapiens, as well as superior stone tools.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Butts McCracken wrote:
You misread it

I don't want any of your lip until you're done with your court-ordered rehab.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So... a black Neanderthal did another black Neanderthal and the result was a pure Aryan race?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Butts McCracken wrote:
You misread it

I don't want any of your lip until you're done with your court-ordered rehab.
I'm allowed to post from the hospital so :P
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Are you under the impression that H. sapiens and H. neanderthalensis have genomes of different lengths? If 20% of the Neanderthal genome is present in ours, then 20% of our genome is Neanderthal.


BEEEEEP WRONG

and the article does not claim that.

You really have no fucking clue, do you?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An hybrid between 20% of a black mutant that because of hundred thousand years of evolution in a very different climate was not black and was hairy and 80% of a different black mutant (that was not black because ....), hybrid that kept evolving in a very different climate. Does it sounds better now?

Which mutant species was non-black and hairy as a result of the glacial period? The first or the second?
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
porodzila wrote:
If you take 20% of the DNA of the population of 100 Neaderthals and you spread those 20 units out over 1000 Sapiens who don't necessarily have to have any amount of it then the percent is only 2%. right?

If you exclude the possibility of any redundancy, which is not the case.


I don't exclude redundancy. If a human population only had .01% Neaderthal DNA they could potentially still represent 100% of the neanderthal genome if each individual had a unique enough piece of it.
All the article says is that 20 % of the genome is represented in ours. That could be spread out over a large number of people. Some of it could be redundant as in it occurs in everybody or some of it could be quite rare.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not fragmented like that. We've been spreading it around for 50,000 years; it's as homogenous as the human genome itself.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Are you under the impression that H. sapiens and H. neanderthalensis have genomes of different lengths? If 20% of the Neanderthal genome is present in ours, then 20% of our genome is Neanderthal.


BEEEEEP WRONG

and the article does not claim that.

You really have no fucking clue, do you?

Okay, you're right. I'm full of shit. I admit it.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Okay, you're right. I'm full of shit. I admit it.
No, you're not.
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