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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:53 am    Post subject: Watch: Sailfish OS Ported To Nexus 4 Reply with quote

Watch: Sailfish OS Ported To Nexus 4
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the reasons I don't like Android very much is because it is primarily a platform for serving you advertisements and because of that, when you turn on WiFi or 3G, the phone continously sync's to Google.

There's absolutely no reason for it to do that, unless it's trying to figure out where you are all the time so that appropriate ads can be pushed to you.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
One of the reasons I don't like Android very much is because it is primarily a platform for serving you advertisements and because of that, when you turn on WiFi or 3G, the phone continously sync's to Google.

There's absolutely no reason for it to do that, unless it's trying to figure out where you are all the time so that appropriate ads can be pushed to you.

You'll be taken more seriously if your posts are well-informed.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
when you turn on WiFi or 3G, the phone continously sync's to Google.
Is there demonstrated proof you can link to? I wouldn't be surprised, but I am surprised this is the first I've heard of it.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well everytime i turn on my nexus 7 with kit kat, it runs its syncs... once, ads in apps, i dont even notice them on the GAPS packages, maybe if you install a lot of cheap free apps from the play store those guys like to fill their apps with push notifications popups and video ads.

but with kit kat (android 4.4.2) and i think with JB (4.2-4.3) you had to give permission to allow an app to send a push notification.

so with my long experience with android, i can come up with 2 different things, either the user installs push filled applications which makes it the users's fault, or the user's carrior installed push filled aps before the user got the phone, which is still the OP's fault.

if you have poor data connection it may take a long time to sync, but this threads not about fixing it, the OP seems angry at android

edit...

thinking about it, carriers often like to install so much "Custom" content to the phones without properly testing it (they seem to only take the time to make sure their custom software works, custom content that's always running in the background, rather than idling in the background like most apps do. By the time that the user turns on the phone for the first time, your available memory is at 5-10%, and we are talking 2-5 MB of free ram.

for example sprints package includes, blockbuster, sprint TV, NASCAR, football live, sprint wifi tether, sprint worldwide, sprint zone sprint music plus, sprint movies, CBS sports, sprint weather app, sprint navigation, trip advisor, watchon baconreader, lookout security

and this is on top of what the manufacturer installs on the phone for example samsung
you get samsung apps, samsung hub, samsung link, custom or tweked UI, samsung health, samsung memo, samsung translator, samsung voice

and the apps that the carrier and manufacturer install are installed as system apps so they cant be permanently stopped, android looks to make sure system apps are always running, they cant be unistalled (system apps are installed ro)

and people wonder why their mid level android phone is so slow and has such a poor batter life, and why any apps they actually download themselves don't work very well.

and those cheap mid level android phones (the ones that sell a lot of units) never get android updates because they are contracted to put all these apps in, and by the time the manufacturer gets done with updating android and their apps and gives it to the carrier, the carrier cant get all their contracted apps to work, so they have to wait if the app maker can do it.

and more often than not the process takes so long more than 2 years, its just not worth updating 2 year old devices.
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Last edited by djdunn on Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone here tried installing Sailfish OS on their phone? I'd like to try this, but I don't want to find out it is somehow incompatible with carrier networks here in the US.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

djdunn wrote:
so with my long experience with android, i can come up with 2 different things, either the user installs push filled applications which makes it the users's fault, or the user's carrior installed push filled aps before the user got the phone, which is still the OP's fault.
That makes sense, and has little to do with the device or the OS. I would expect Google to market a cheaper phone which relied on OS ads (instead of doing it covertly). It would probably sell well enough to justify.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
djdunn wrote:
so with my long experience with android, i can come up with 2 different things, either the user installs push filled applications which makes it the users's fault, or the user's carrior installed push filled aps before the user got the phone, which is still the OP's fault.
That makes sense, and has little to do with the device or the OS. I would expect Google to market a cheaper phone which relied on OS ads (instead of doing it covertly). It would probably sell well enough to justify.


i edited my post with a more detailed view of the problem
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are they doing covertly?

I don't think the OS (Android) does any information gathering; it's just the Google applications, isn't it? You can get rid of that stuff if you want to.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone should create adblock for android.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gaps package cant normally be uninstalled either, but unlike the carrior and manufacturer apps they do allow you to disable the individual apps,

information google collects with android is physical location of wifi networks, maybe some bug reporting things.

one thing google does is if they find a deliberately harmful app on the market they can uninstall the app on everyone's phone remotly, everyone with gapps package,

but apps taken down for legal reasons's i had a Texas Instruments calculator app that was taken off the market, was kept on my phone and actually restored when i did a factory reset, but the app cant be found on the play store now because it included the firmware of the TI86 i think

and there is an adblock for android...

https://adblockplus.org/en/android-install

it cant be found on play store for obvious reasons but its there and it works
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spent wrote:
Has anyone here tried installing Sailfish OS on their phone? I'd like to try this, but I don't want to find out it is somehow incompatible with carrier networks here in the US.
I've been meaning to get the latest phone, and I've been loosely following sailfish for a while, so I'd like to see if it is viable on the Nexus 5. Looks like the phone might be available in store as well (though for ~$50 more).
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

djdunn wrote:
and the apps that the carrier and manufacturer install are installed as system apps so they cant be permanently stopped, android looks to make sure system apps are always running, they cant be unistalled (system apps are installed ro)
This is my main interest in getting a device not tied to a carrier or subsidies. I don't want optional crap on it that I can't remove, and I want to be able to change the OS without carrier or manufacturer interference. As far as I know, the Nexus is the only device meeting those requirements.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
What are they doing covertly?

I don't think the OS (Android) does any information gathering; it's just the Google applications, isn't it? You can get rid of that stuff if you want to.
I'm assuming that was in reply to my post. You'll have to ask notageek. I was commenting that I don't think Google would do it covertly. If Google tied ads to the OS, I think they would market it as such and charge less for the device. And then I added "instead of doing it covertly", meaning trying to hide the fact that they were pushing ads to your device.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

google makes money from android by selling the google apps package, which has to be displayed on the first homescreen when you turn it on.

if you dont want to use google aps like amazon does with their kindle fire, then google makes no money or anything from it.

actually Microsoft makes more money from each kindle sale than Google does

but google will always let you download play store and google apps packages for free, then they can start making money via adserv playstore and whatnot,

but again google only gets paid for an android device sold if that device includes google apps package
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

djdunn wrote:
but again google only gets paid for an android device sold if that device includes google apps package
Not something that concerns me, except how much crapware or ads I'm forced to have. The silo "store" model is probably the worst thing to come with the mobile ecosystem.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gotta also remember that google doesn't completly control the development of android, the android open source project does, google may be one of the biggest contributors to the project but other companies contribute too.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
djdunn wrote:
but again google only gets paid for an android device sold if that device includes google apps package
Not something that concerns me, except how much crapware or ads I'm forced to have. The silo "store" model is probably the worst thing to come with the mobile ecosystem.


unlike apple and microsoft, android allows you to easilly install another app store, and you dont have to use one at all, if you want to go out and manually download the packages and install them and manually check for updates, i dont really see how the "store" model is much different from any package repository we use in the linux world.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have an account tied to portage, RPM, apt-get, etc. Google's does seem "better" when compared to either Apple or MS. But better isn't necessarily "good." I guess the account portion is my main complaint, and the removal without my permission. Amazon has proven more than once the danger of that "feature."
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've been over this. Run CyanogenMod without Google Apps installed.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was a general comment.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
notageek wrote:
when you turn on WiFi or 3G, the phone continously sync's to Google.
Is there demonstrated proof you can link to? I wouldn't be surprised, but I am surprised this is the first I've heard of it.
if you go into the network usage app you'll see Unified Daemon, Google Play Service and Android OS as top three. It is in mine.

Given the unified daemon is all the apps but I have only gmail and yahoo finance & weather apps on my phone. Should it be taking 541MB? (And gmail and yahoo apps show up separately).

Google play services are probably for the app updates but should it be taking in 409MB?

What about Android OS? Why is there 250mb usage for it?

It is because it is sync'ing to Google so that it knows where you are all the time. It is not far fetched if you follow current events and see that what makes google money. It is certainly not from selling android. It is free.

The primary source of google revenue is adverts.

Shouldn't be that hard to see.
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Last edited by notageek on Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:35 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, the battery usage is an indicator for what your precious Android device is doing all the time. Again it's the Android OS and the Android System taking up most of your battery. The top two.

These are core system services, which are not being used directly by third party apps.

So, it is quite easy to presume what these services are trying to do. Push ads.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
pjp wrote:
notageek wrote:
when you turn on WiFi or 3G, the phone continously sync's to Google.
Is there demonstrated proof you can link to? I wouldn't be surprised, but I am surprised this is the first I've heard of it.
if you go into the network usage app you'll see Unified Daemon, Google Play Service and Android OS as top three. It is in mine.

Given the unified daemon is all the apps but I have only gmail and yahoo finance & weather apps on my phone. Should it be taking 541MB? (And gmail and yahoo apps show up separately).

Google play services are probably for the app updates but should it be taking in 409MB?

What about Android OS? Why is there 250mb usage for it?

It is because it is sync'ing to Google so that it knows where you are all the time. It is not far fetched if you follow current events and see that what makes google money. It is certainly not from selling android. It is free.

The primary source of google revenue is adverts.

Shouldn't be that hard to see.

"Unified daemon?" That's malware.
https://isc.sans.edu/diary/Anatomy+of+a+Malware+distribution+campaign/17459


Last edited by Bones McCracker on Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:26 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a system service, supposed to be used by background services.
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