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redwood
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:03 am    Post subject: Installing Gentoo/Sabayon on Acer C720 Chromebook Reply with quote

I recently bought an Acer C720 Chromebook
and swapped out the 16G M.2 NGFF SSD for a 128G mSSD
in order to dual boot with linux.

The C720 Chromebook has an Intel Haswell processor unlike the C710
which had an ARM processor.

Google apparently has packaged ChromeOS using Gentoo's package manager
and I would like to install Gentoo/Sabayon if possible.

One can alternatively install a Ubuntu rootfs in a chroot linux container
using the Crouton script:
[url]
http://www.webupd8.org/2013/12/install-ubuntu-on-your-chromebook-using.html
[/url]
and then swap back and forth from ChromeOS and Ubuntu using hotkeys.
But I would like to dual boot instead since I have the disk space.


One can put the Chromebook into developer mode,
login as the root user "chronos" and install a second OS
into a chrome-flavored GPT.
(Ubuntu has packaged the GPT partition table tool "cgpt" for repartioning.)
[url]
https://sites.google.com/site/chromeoswikisite/home/what-s-new-in-dev-and-beta/developer-mode
[/url]
There's no need to boot from a pendrive, cdrom, dvd, etc,
in order to repartition and install a second OS.

The specs for the C720 are here:
[url]
http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/developer-information-for-chrome-os-devices/acer-c720-chromebook
[/url]


The chromeos-cr48 blogspot has several guides to installing
Ubuntu on both the ARM and Haswell Chromebooks and
Ubuntu, CrunchBang and ArchLinux have all been installed using
these guides. There is also a Gentoo image for an ARM Chromebook
from 2011 along with a modifidied chromeos-cr48 installation script:
[url]
http://intelminer.com/blog/?p=56#comment-4
[/url]

Since Ubuntu was reported to work on the C720 using the latest
installation script from
[url]
http://chromeos-cr48.blogspot.com/2013/10/chrubuntu-for-new-chromebooks-now-with.html
[/url]

I decided to give the "9sgchs" script a try:
[url]
http://goo.gl/9sgchs
[/url]

The 9sgchs installation script is run from chronos in developer mode.
It shrinks Chromeos and repartitions the cGPT partitions, then reboots
and installs a Ubuntu rootfs "urfs" onto /dev/sda7 and also installs
a linux payload into /dev/sda6.

The repartitioning worked fine and the system rebooted fine.
The next step of the script is to chroot into the /dev/sda7
and build a kernel. This part failed for me. I think the patches
listed in the script were outdated for the current Ubuntu version.


In any event, after rebooting, SEABios lists the new bootable partition
but has an error. I can press Ctrl-F1 and get a Ubuntu cmdline login though.
But no networking or services seem to be running.



So since I already have repartitioned my SSD and made a linux bootable
/dev/sda7 I would like to repair or replace Ubuntu with Gentoo/Sabayon
if possible.


If I logout and then login to ChromeOS
and get a Chrome shell "crosh" using Ctrl-T,
then type "shell" followed by "sudo su -" I
am then logged in as "chronos" and can run shell commands.

So I've mounted /dev/sda7 to /tmp/urfs and bind'ed /proc, /dev, /sys, ...
and been able to chroot into my "urfs" using ChromeOS kernel-3.8.11
and try to fix my Ubuntu's kernel-3.20-58 to no avail
using the kernel compilation/patching script "kz917j":
[url]
http://goo.gl/kz917j
[/url]
referenced in the installation script "9sgchs"
The urls for downloading the patches seem to be broken.

Have any Gentoo users installed Gentoo on Acer's C720 Chromebook?
Anybody thinking about doing it?

ArchLinux follows the chromeos-cr48 script
up until the script reboots into the new Ubuntu.
Then it overwrites the Ubuntu installation with Arch.
[url]
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Acer_C7_Chromebook#Enabling_Dev_Mode
[/url]

So I was hoping I could cob together some ideas from
the ArchLinux installation method to shoe horn
Gentoo/Sabayon on to this Chromebook.
Also, if I can get Gentoo installed, could I treat the cGPT
partition like I would in any normal Gentoo installation and
perhaps run LVM on top and encrypt my home folder or the rootfs?

But first I need to compile a kernel with all the hardware working OK.

Thanks for any ideas.
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redwood
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sabayon has a guide for installing from an existing Linux system using the traditional chroot method:
https://wiki.sabayon.org/index.php?title=HOWTO:_Install_from_an_existing_Linux_system
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-x86-quickinstall.xml

So maybe I'll give that a try and use the Arch kernel module patches to get trackpad etc working.

ChromeOS model and architecture:
Code:

localhost ~ # crossystem hwid
PEPPY C6A-N3C-A7O

localhost ~ # uname -m
x86_64

localhost ~ # uname  -a
Linux localhost 3.8.11 #1 SMP Wed Jan 8 23:38:16 PST 2014 x86_64 Intel(R) Celeron(R) 2955U @ 1.40GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux


Some traditional Gentoo tests on the C720:

Code:

root@localhost:/# grep bogo /proc/cpuinfo
bogomips        : 2793.51
bogomips        : 2793.51

root@localhost:/# hdparm -tT /dev/sda
/dev/sda:
 Timing cached reads:   7396 MB in  2.00 seconds = 3701.33 MB/sec
 Timing buffered disk reads: 754 MB in  3.00 seconds = 251.00 MB/sec

root@localhost:/# grep MemTotal /proc/meminfo
MemTotal:        1923176 kB


And current loaded modules:
Code:

root@localhost:/# lsmod
Module                  Size  Used by
ax88179_178a           16448  0
usbnet                 21912  1 ax88179_178a
i2c_dev                12352  0
snd_hda_codec_realtek    28736  1
snd_hda_codec_hdmi     33201  1
memconsole             12352  0
snd_hda_intel          32832  9
isl29018               16448  0
industrialio           21724  1 isl29018
snd_hda_codec         114501  3 snd_hda_codec_realtek,snd_hda_codec_hdmi,snd_hda_intel
snd_hwdep              12390  1 snd_hda_codec
snd_pcm                69703  3 snd_hda_codec_hdmi,snd_hda_intel,snd_hda_codec
snd_timer              21094  1 snd_pcm
zram                   16620  1
snd_page_alloc         12806  2 snd_hda_intel,snd_pcm
zsmalloc               12659  1 zram
lzo_decompress         12359  1 zram
lzo_compress           12354  1 zram
fuse                   63981  1
nf_conntrack_ipv6      12352  2
nf_defrag_ipv6         12569  1 nf_conntrack_ipv6
ip6table_filter        12352  1
xt_mark                12352  0
ip6_tables             20721  1 ip6table_filter
ath9k_btcoex          122464  0
mac80211              326286  1 ath9k_btcoex
ath9k_common_btcoex    12780  1 ath9k_btcoex
ath9k_hw_btcoex       353316  2 ath9k_btcoex,ath9k_common_btcoex
ath                    21105  3 ath9k_btcoex,ath9k_common_btcoex,ath9k_hw_btcoex
cfg80211              145366  3 ath9k_btcoex,mac80211,ath
ath3k                  12352  0
btusb                  16448  0
bluetooth             165222  17 ath3k,btusb
uvcvideo               67560  0
videobuf2_core         30073  1 uvcvideo
videodev               85787  2 uvcvideo,videobuf2_core
videobuf2_vmalloc      12313  1 uvcvideo
videobuf2_memops       12432  1 videobuf2_vmalloc
joydev                 16448  0


and lspci:
Code:

root@localhost:/# lspci
00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation Haswell-ULT DRAM Controller (rev 09)
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Haswell-ULT Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 09)
00:03.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation Device 0a0c (rev 09)
00:14.0 USB controller: Intel Corporation Lynx Point-LP USB xHCI HC (rev 04)
00:15.0 DMA controller: Intel Corporation Lynx Point-LP Low Power Sub-System DMA (rev 04)
00:15.1 Serial bus controller [0c80]: Intel Corporation Lynx Point-LP I2C Controller #0 (rev 04)
00:15.2 Serial bus controller [0c80]: Intel Corporation Lynx Point-LP I2C Controller #1 (rev 04)
00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation Lynx Point-LP HD Audio Controller (rev 04)
00:1c.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Lynx Point-LP PCI Express Root Port 1 (rev e4)
00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation Lynx Point-LP LPC Controller (rev 04)
00:1f.2 SATA controller: Intel Corporation Lynx Point-LP SATA Controller 1 [AHCI mode] (rev 04)
00:1f.3 SMBus: Intel Corporation Lynx Point-LP SMBus Controller (rev 04)
00:1f.6 Signal processing controller: Intel Corporation Lynx Point-LP Thermal (rev 04)
01:00.0 Network controller: Qualcomm Atheros AR9462 Wireless Network Adapter (rev 01)


And cpuinfo
Code:

root@localhost:/# lscpu
Architecture:          x86_64
CPU op-mode(s):        32-bit, 64-bit
Byte Order:            Little Endian
CPU(s):                2
On-line CPU(s) list:   0,1
Thread(s) per core:    1
Core(s) per socket:    2
Socket(s):             1
Vendor ID:             GenuineIntel
CPU family:            6
Model:                 69
Stepping:              1
CPU MHz:               800.000
BogoMIPS:              2793.51
Virtualization:        VT-x
L1d cache:             32K
L1i cache:             32K
L2 cache:              256K
L3 cache:              2048K


And GPT partitions:
Code:

root@localhost:/# cgpt show /dev/sda
       start        size    part  contents
           0           1          PMBR (Boot GUID: BB000A0D-0001-0EB4-CD10-AC3C0075F4C3)
           1           1          Pri GPT header
           2          32          Pri GPT table
     8671232    25325568       1  Label: "STATE"
                                  Type: Linux data
                                  UUID: 3EDBD643-8E6F-F948-90E6-C419411B93EF
       20480       32768       2  Label: "KERN-A"
                                  Type: ChromeOS kernel
                                  UUID: 60FEEE1A-18B7-9643-9CA3-49A2FBCEA0A9
                                  Attr: priority=1 tries=0 successful=1
     4476928     4194304       3  Label: "ROOT-A"
                                  Type: ChromeOS rootfs
                                  UUID: 65DEF3E7-8239-EA46-8124-8CC592350B46
       53248       32768       4  Label: "KERN-B"
                                  Type: ChromeOS kernel
                                  UUID: 7236E5E4-534B-6444-A787-B8F1673EC0EF
                                  Attr: priority=2 tries=0 successful=1
      282624     4194304       5  Label: "ROOT-B"
                                  Type: ChromeOS rootfs
                                  UUID: 573FD0E3-0776-F94D-A283-CCAA08B2ADAA
    33996800       32768       6  Label: "KERN-C"
                                  Type: ChromeOS kernel
                                  UUID: 74BAB5DF-1A3C-8140-9440-3A732BE04E3A
                                  Attr: priority=0 tries=15 successful=0
    34029568   216006656       7  Label: "ROOT-C"
                                  Type: ChromeOS rootfs
                                  UUID: 718C1159-7322-1149-9755-50DAB0937759
       86016       32768       8  Label: "OEM"
                                  Type: Linux data
                                  UUID: BF516002-98A0-E849-81A2-9941FFB8180A
       16450           1       9  Label: "reserved"
                                  Type: ChromeOS reserved
                                  UUID: F28F9F12-FC78-0641-A949-1C05C1BB1A69
       16451           1      10  Label: "reserved"
                                  Type: ChromeOS reserved
                                  UUID: 773C01C9-9DDD-BD4A-B53C-FF1A699DE8AC
          64       16384      11  Label: "RWFW"
                                  Type: ChromeOS firmware
                                  UUID: 827B5DED-7707-8849-A702-A1BB2C138AFC
      249856       32768      12  Label: "EFI-SYSTEM"
                                  Type: EFI System Partition
                                  UUID: 57F5063E-8EC0-0940-ACD2-7E8805ECDA26
   250069647          32          Sec GPT table
   250069679           1          Sec GPT header
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redwood
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found another Ubuntu install script at
[url]
http://billalex.wordpress.com/2013/01/01/linux-on-chromebook/
[/url]

which just copies over the x86_64 kernel and modules to the Ubuntu root fs:
Code:

mount -t ext4 /dev/sda7 /tmp/urfs
cp /usr/bin/cgpt /tmp/urfs/usr/bin/
chmod a+rx /tmp/urfs/usr/bin/cgpt 

echo "console=tty1 debug verbose root=/dev/sda7 rootwait rw" > kernel-config

if [ "$chromebook_arch" = "x86_64" ] # We'll use the official Chrome OS kernel if it's x64
then
   cp -ar /lib/modules/* /tmp/urfs/lib/modules/
   vbutil_kernel --pack newkern \
                       --keyblock /usr/share/vboot/devkeys/kernel.keyblock \
                       --version 1 \
                       --signprivate /usr/share/vboot/devkeys/kernel_data_key.vbprivk \
                       --config kernel-config \
                       --vmlinuz /boot/vmlinuz-`uname -r`
   use_kernfs=newkern
else # Otherwise we'll download a custom-built non-official Chromium OS kernel
   <compile custom kernel>
fi
dd if=$use_kernfs of=/dev/sda6



My ChromeOS modules:
Code:

localhost ~ # ls /lib/modules/3.8.11/
kernel/             modules.builtin      modules.dep      modules.ieee1394map  modules.ofmap   modules.seriomap  modules.symbols.bin
modules.alias      modules.builtin.bin  modules.dep.bin  modules.inputmap     modules.order   modules.softdep   modules.usbmap
modules.alias.bin  modules.ccwmap       modules.devname  modules.isapnpmap    modules.pcimap  modules.symbols
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redwood
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:47 am    Post subject: Installed Sabayon 14.0 KDE Reply with quote

In case anyone is interested, I managed to install Sabayon 14.0 KDE by making
a liveusb pendrive with unetbootlin.

I downloaded Jay Lee's Chrubuntu partitioning/installation script from
http://goo.gl/9sgchs

and followed his guide at
http://chromeos-cr48.blogspot.com/2013/10/chrubuntu-for-new-chromebooks-now-with.html

up until Step #7 where the script finished growing /dev/sda7 and shrinking ROOT-A.

then instead of rebooting and running the script to now install Ubuntu packages,
I instead pressed CTRL-L to get SeaBIOS menu to boot from my liveusb pendrive.

At the grub menu I selected "Boot KDE" and pressed the "TAB" key to edit the kernel
command line and added "mem=1536mem"
and then booted to KDE.

I ran the Anaconda installer and chose "Custom" installation then selected
"/dev/sda7" and ediited to select format "ext4" and mount point of "/"
then let Anaconda finish installing to /dev/sda7 and installing grub to /dev/sda

Then rebooted, pressed "CTRL-L" to get SeaBIOS menu in developer mode
and selected my SSD then got grub2 menu and booted into Sabayon.
Everything works OK except for the trackpad for which I'll have to patch the synaptic kernell
drivers.

Code:
#uname -a
Linux ChroSab 3.12.0-sabayon #1 SMP Fri Dec 13 02:47:32 UTC 2013 x86_64 Intel(R) Celeron(R) 2955U @ 1.40GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux


Of course this isetup is insecure for a laptop. I have no encrypption.
I had tried putting LVM on top of /dev/sda7 with {/, /boot and /home lv's)
but grub2 could not boot without a 2M GPT boot partion of type EF00.
I tried shrinking my pv with pvresize and then used cgdisk to delete sda7
and then create two new partitions from the freed up space, a sda7 with 103G of type LVM
and a 16M partion on sda13 of type EF00 for grub bios boot.

Unfortunately, after rebooting, the firmware on the Chromebook said my
disk was now corrupted and I needed to re-install from the recovery disk.
Not sure if I could use cgpt to set flags (priorities, attempts, etc) which would have
made my modifications to partition table acceptable to firmware. Maybe the
number and order of the GPT partitions is fixed and any modification other than
resizing ROOT-C results in "Disk corrupted, please insert recovery disk"


Anyhow, this is Sabayon, so I'll have to install some tools for compiling/patching a kernel:

Code:
 
equo install portage eix
emerge --sync
emerge gentoo-sources


and apply the synaptic trackpad patches and some other patches linked on
http://intelminer.com/blog/?p=56

which also lists some compiler optimizations:
Code:

-O2 -pipe -march=core-avx2 -mcx16 -msahf -mmovbe -mno-aes -mpclmul -mpopcnt -mabm -mno-lwp -mno-fma -mno-fma4 -mno-xop -mno-bmi -mno-bmi2 -mno-tbm -mno-avx -mno-avx2 -msse4.2 -msse4.1 -mlzcnt -mno-rtm -mno-hle -mrdrnd -mno-f16c -mfsgsbase -mno-rdseed -mno-prfchw -mno-adx -mfxsr -mno-xsave -mno-xsaveopt –param l1-cache-size=32 –param l1-cache-line-size=64 –param l2-cache-size=2048 -mtune=core-avx2 -fstack-protector -Wformat -Wformat-security


but since I'm on Sabayon's binary distribution I can't change its defaults in /etc/make.conf:
Quote:
CFLAGS="-O2 -march=x86-64 -pipe"


Still, I'm happy with my $199 Chromebook. Definitely snappier than expected.
I had considered doing a traditional Gentoo stage3 install and compiling everything from scratch
but it's kind of nice to have a full KDE installation in <10min.
I did originally unpack a Gentoo stage3 into a chroot and then was going to put
Sabayon on top but the first step
Code:

equo rescue generate

just sat for hours writing nothing to the screen to even let me know it was creating a database
so I had no idea how long it would take -- hours? days? a week?
I could've set up a build environment on an 8-core computer to help, but I just wanted
to find out how a Linux Desktop performed on this Chromebook and installing Sabayon from liveusb
was just faster.

Now I just need to figure out how to encrypt / and where to put /boot so that grub2 can find it.
I'm sure I've seen guides somewhere about booting from a usb stick to decrypt a laptop.
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i2wgentoo
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Location: Surat, Gujarat, India

PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:11 am    Post subject: Easy guide to install Gentoo on Acer C720 Chromebook Reply with quote

Hello Everybody,

We have come up with an easy to follow guide to install Gentoo on Acer C720 Chromebook. Below is the step-to-step process:

1. Enabling Developer Mode:

To enter developer mode: Press and hold the Esc+F3 (Refresh) keys, then press the Power button simultaneously. This enters recovery mode. Now, press Ctrl+D (no prompt). It will ask you to confirm, then the system will revert its state and enable developer mode. Press Ctrl+D (or wait 30 seconds for the beep and boot) at the white boot splash screen to enter Chrome OS.

2. Enabling SeaBIOS:

After changing to developer mode, configure Chrome OS so that you can log in.

For further steps, Please visit the below link:
http://www.ideatoworking.com/Blogs/ID/21/How-To-Easily-Install-Gentoo-On-Acer-C720-Chromebook
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redwood
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice writeup. I see you went the traditional route and decided to wipe ChromeOS off the disk and just do a traditional stage3 Gentoo install with grub2.

I see you're running a 3.10.25 kernel.
Have you applied patches to get the trackpad working and configured?
What about power management? sleep? suspend?



After installing Sabayon dual booting with ChromeOS, I tried to reboot into ChromeOS <CTRL-D> and the firmware said my disk was corrupted and to "insert rescue disk" to re-install ChromeOS. I'm not sure what Anaconda or grub2 did that broke ChromeOS partition table expectations.

So, I decided to give Chrubuntu another go and this time round selected kde using "-m kubuntu-desktop" with the script defaults and no other install options. This time round, the 9sgchs partitioning/installation script installed the default kubuntu desktop successfully.



I now have a working dual boot ChromeOS/kubuntu C720.
The trackpad works but is too twitchy.
Makes typing really difficult with the cursor jumping all over the place in a text block.

Also, the "sleep" power state is broken. If I walk away from the chromebook and the screen shuts off, the screen will come back on if I touch the trackpad or keys, but nothing then works.
So have to do a hard reboot <REFRESH-POWER>
But otherwise kubuntu seems to work fine. It might be my imagination, but kubuntu may run hotter than ChromeOS, at least the laptop seems warmer running kuntuntu than when I'm running ChromeOS, but I haven't investigated this thoroughly yet.

Am not able to play some videos in ChromeOS but maybe I'm lacking "right" app?
Kubuntu's dragonplayer plays same videos just fine.
Also, Google's nameservers and options in "/etc/resolv.conf" made updating Sabayon from a chroot impossible because of timeout issues. So I had to replace the chroot's resolv.conf

Google's resolv.conf:
Code:

nameserver 64.0.55.201
nameserver 184.154.13.186
options single-request timeout:1 attempts:5


On the other hand Google's nameservers do do a very good job at tracking my browsing on ChromeOS. The Googled sponsored ads are now very specific anytime I use chromium browser from any computer.
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pallagun
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:48 pm    Post subject: c720 recent installs & Cypress APA touchpad Reply with quote

Has anyone done a recent install on a c720? I've heard the >3.17 kernel supports the Cypress APA touchpad (and there is even a CONFIG_MOUSE_CYAPA). However, I can't seem to get the touchpad working.

I've followed a bunch of on line guides at this point but I've not had any success. Should I be seeing the touchpad in my lsusb or i2cdetect -l once it's installed correctly?
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redwood
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've now installed Sabayon on two Acer C720 chromebooks. The current Sabayon includes the 3.17.0 kernel with the chromebook drivers. Everything works.

Before the latest Sabayon release, I had to compile my own 3.17.0 kernel. Just enable the kernel option for chromebook and everything should work.


Here's my post to the Sabayon forums about compiling/installing a 3.17.0 kernel:
https://forum.sabayon.org/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=32078
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pallagun
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, "chromebook drivers" is what I was missing. There is a kernel config for chromeos platforms (CONFIG_CHROME_PLATFORMS) that I was missing. I had all the i2c stuff and cyapa mouse stuff but without the chromebook specific config it didn't work. Can't believe I missed that. Thanks!
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moved from Installing Gentoo to Unsupported Software. Not about Gentoo (Sabayon being a derivative distribution) so it fits better here.

- John
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redwood
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW, I recently replaced Kubuntu with Sabayon on a friend's Acer C720. Their impression matches mine that Sabayon is just faster and doesn't crash or hang. I'm not sure what's the matter with Kubuntu freezing -- I think it maybe has something to do with java as both openoffice and firefox seem to slow to a crawl the longer the apps are running. Eventually the computer just freezes and has to be hard booted. Replacing with Sabayon completely fixed the issue for me and my friend.

I was worried about installing regular Gentoo on an SSD. I only got 9 months out of my 128G MyDigitalSSD M.2 SSD running Kubuntu. I replaced the failed SSD with a 256G Transcend card. Hopefully this one will last longer. It has a 1-year warranty vs the other's 30-day warranty. Nevertheless, I worried about compiling on the SSD and wearing the drive out. Hence I decided to give Sabayon a try. I can still use portage to install any packages not provided by Sabayon's repositories.

I also opted for full disc encryption with btrfs root. So far no issues.
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dalu
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

redwood,

I'm interested so see how long the Transcend one lasts.
Posted to subscribe to updates, if any.
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rtk
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pallagun wrote:
Ah, "chromebook drivers" is what I was missing. There is a kernel config for chromeos platforms (CONFIG_CHROME_PLATFORMS) that I was missing. I had all the i2c stuff and cyapa mouse stuff but without the chromebook specific config it didn't work. Can't believe I missed that. Thanks!


I'm kind of in the same boat right now with my c720. I should have everything selected in my kernel config but still not working.Did it finally get working for you?
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