Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
How I learned to stop worrying and love package.mask.
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

 
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Gentoo Forums Feedback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
saellaven
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 286

PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

User: TomWij
Topic: please new forum _Advanced_Gentoo_without_KIT_
Post: post 7455984
Reason: Repeatedly continues to harass me when I've asked him to no longer speak to be because of his past actions. A month ago, I asked that he be referred to ComRel for his actions.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TomWij
Developer
Developer


Joined: 04 Jul 2012
Posts: 1551

PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

User: saellaven
Topic: please new forum _Advanced_Gentoo_without_KIT_
Post: post 7455902
Reason: This post and the ones following are personal off-topic responses to on-topic questions addressing the thread subject, its arguments and the personal claims made; [...]

Mod edit: You do realize that they have expressly stated that they have no interest in further contact with you, right? Their "personal address" of what is easily taken as your badgering is unlikely in itself and even less probable to help either of you. So drop it. When a user asks you to leave them be, do it. -- desultory

User edit: Your description mismatches my intention, I want to hold an on-topic discussion; so I do as asked by saellaven in this context, but given this is a public forum with unrestricted discussion this is hard to guarantee.


Last edited by TomWij on Sat Dec 07, 2013 2:54 pm; edited 5 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Anon-E-moose
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 2370
Location: Dallas area

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

saellaven wrote:
Reason: Repeatedly continues to harass me when I've asked him to no longer speak


I've taken the passive approach, I found a phpBB user block greasemonkey script and this is all I see

Code:
Blocked a post by ulenrich, click to view
Blocked a post by TomWij, click to view


That way if I want to respond or think they have something to say I don't consider trolling I can.
_________________
Asus m5a99fx, FX 8320 - amd64-multilib, 3.15.9-zen, glibc-2.17, gcc-4.7.3-r1, eudev
xorg-server-1.16, openbox w/lxpanel, nouveau, oss4
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TomWij
Developer
Developer


Joined: 04 Jul 2012
Posts: 1551

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you please use this thread only for reporting to spare out moderation work? Thank you in advance.

User edit: Anon-E-Moose has since moved his post to the earlier reported topic, yet we cannot remove our posts from the reporting thread; a moderator will do soon.


Last edited by TomWij on Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:03 pm; edited 5 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
krinn
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 4294

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

User: ulenrich
Topic: please new forum _Advanced_Gentoo_without_KIT_
Post: post 7453580
Reason: Troll thread. No reason to exist except creating conflict between two users community.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ulenrich
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1159

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

krinn wrote:
User: ulenrich
Topic: please new forum _Advanced_Gentoo_without_KIT_
Post: post 7453580
Reason: Troll thread. No reason to exist except creating conflict between two users community.
@krinn, please read further, the second page gets more interesting:
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-977528-postdays-0-postorder-asc-start-25.html
At first I may have selected words provoking others, excuse me.
_________________
fun2gen2
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
krinn
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 4294

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ulenrich don't try to convince me you're not trollling, keep any excuse for moderators as it belongs now to them to say if you're a troll or not.

But as you seems to care about my point of view, of course you're a troll, i have seen you trolling in so many threads that i have no doubt about it.
But at least, be happy, i tolerate your trolling, like many here, and didn't report yourself as a troll.
So instead of reporting you, i have report the thread : I'm not a fan of having people ban. But threads are not people.

I also dislike seeing TomWij telling us how we should use the forum report thread : how to use that thread is a task for moderators not for a dev.
If we follow his logic : all comments not reporting issue that aren't from modos here should not be made :
So in order of appearance all those persons are breaking rules : rogoroth, ulenrich, Anon-E-moose, TomWij (!), and myself just right now.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ulenrich
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1159

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

krinn wrote:
Ulenrich don't try to convince me you're not trollling,

The inflatory use of the term "troll" against everyone makes this word meaningless.

I would not take the extra effort to write in foreign english language a post about something I don't care. I used "trolling" once in a report, but was hinted by the administrator then this was just a normal flame against me.
_________________
fun2gen2
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
desultory
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 04 Nov 2005
Posts: 8004

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

krinn wrote:
User: ulenrich
Topic: please new forum _Advanced_Gentoo_without_KIT_
Post: post 7453580
Reason: Troll thread. No reason to exist except creating conflict between two users community.
Having looked it over, I would certainly agree that it started out as trolling, in the classical sense of presenting a front against which to watch others reactions; but it appears to have evolved into something which might be useful to some, or at least a convenient point to proceed from in what could be a useful endeavor.

krinn wrote:
I also dislike seeing TomWij telling us how we should use the forum report thread : how to use that thread is a task for moderators not for a dev.
If we follow his logic : all comments not reporting issue that aren't from modos here should not be made :
So in order of appearance all those persons are breaking rules : rogoroth, ulenrich, Anon-E-moose, TomWij (!), and myself just right now.
Some times the reports topic is the most suitable place for a particular discussion. While the nucleus is generally then split off; we do not have, nor do we necessarily want, express blanket prevention of any and all conversation in the reports topic. We do, however, want it kept to a minimum, so as to not lose the reports among the retorts.

ulenrich wrote:
The inflatory use of the term "troll" against everyone makes this word meaningless.
Quite nearly so, one of the many reasons that it is far better to put a more generally correctly recognized name to a considered offense or slight than to apply the sadly diluted vernacular "trolling".

Split from "Report violations, duplicates, misplaced posts, etc."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Anon-E-moose
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 2370
Location: Dallas area

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

desultory wrote:
ulenrich wrote:
The inflatory use of the term "troll" against everyone makes this word meaningless.
Quite nearly so, one of the many reasons that it is far better to put a more generally correctly recognized name to a considered offense or slight than to apply the sadly diluted vernacular "trolling".


To me a troll isn't simply one who disagrees.

But those who come back with arguments that have either been beat to death or disproven simply to keep an argument going.
The key being they want a continuing argument. That's what a troll thrives on. One can't out-argue a troll.

There are other attributes of a troll, but when I see the above behavior repeatedly then I know I'm dealing with a troll, whether I call them that or not. And I usually try and stick to saying their behavior is trollish. But that's just me.
_________________
Asus m5a99fx, FX 8320 - amd64-multilib, 3.15.9-zen, glibc-2.17, gcc-4.7.3-r1, eudev
xorg-server-1.16, openbox w/lxpanel, nouveau, oss4
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aCOSwt
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 2537
Location: Hilbert space

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I, personally, like trolling.
I find it a nice way to escape rudeness.
Many people just... don't think their own thinking.
Trolling is the only way I have found so far to be polite AND invite some contributors to think their own thinking and consider all the absurdity it might carry.
<trolling>
Works for me!
</trolling>
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Anon-E-moose
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 2370
Location: Dallas area

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
consider all the absurdity it might carry


That would be a benefit, but I very rarely see it happen. LoL
_________________
Asus m5a99fx, FX 8320 - amd64-multilib, 3.15.9-zen, glibc-2.17, gcc-4.7.3-r1, eudev
xorg-server-1.16, openbox w/lxpanel, nouveau, oss4
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
krinn
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 4294

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are plenty explain for troll : some extend it quiet large.
But without going into that huge area of definition of trolling, and taking one of the smallest and simplest i found :
http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/troll
Quote:
(intransitive) (computing, slang) to post deliberately inflammatory articles on an internet discussion board


Now that troll definition is given, it's easy to tell if it's troll or not, answer to :
- Does someone force him to create that thread ?
- Does the aim of that thread is to be inflammatory ?
- Is gentoo forum an "internet discussion board" ?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Anon-E-moose
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 2370
Location: Dallas area

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an interesting list of fallacious arguments, many of them used by those wishing to troll

http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html

Enjoy
_________________
Asus m5a99fx, FX 8320 - amd64-multilib, 3.15.9-zen, glibc-2.17, gcc-4.7.3-r1, eudev
xorg-server-1.16, openbox w/lxpanel, nouveau, oss4
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TomWij
Developer
Developer


Joined: 04 Jul 2012
Posts: 1551

PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anon-E-moose wrote:
To me a troll isn't simply one who disagrees.


That word comes over to me as someone whom disrespectfully disagrees multiple times on purpose;
or at least that's my perception in the context of http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html and how I think of it when I picture it,
you can do a Google Images search for "World of Warcraft Troll" to see what I mean.
It's somewhat different than the new face and definition that the troll meme gave to it...

This is why I have stated multiple times, just like the moderator,
that this word carries no formal commonly understandable meaning as it can be perceived quite differently.
Doing another search, we can find a few different definitions covering a few different meanings;
so, what does trolling really mean?

Anon-E-moose wrote:
But those who come back with arguments that have either been beat to death or disproven simply to keep an argument going.


Just reference to the previous occurrence of the argument and/or its (dis)approval.

Anon-E-moose wrote:
The key being they want a continuing argument.


Or they want to know your thoughts to actively listen and collaborate;
most of us join a discussion when it is already ongoing, thus we still have to grasp the whole context and details.

Anon-E-moose wrote:
That's what a troll thrives on.


That's what a thread thrives on.

Anon-E-moose wrote:
One can't out-argue a troll.


One can't out-argue another without facts and/or references.

Here is a summary of the link I have provided earlier:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg

In my opinion, the top three layers are respectful, the fourth layer is opinion, the rest is disrespectful.

Anon-E-moose wrote:
There are other attributes of a troll, but when I see the above behavior repeatedly then I know I'm dealing with a troll, whether I call them that or not. And I usually try and stick to saying their behavior is trollish. But that's just me.


Why is the person you are having a discussion with participating? It can be different than what you think about.

In your own words: "Don't just knee-jerk against what is said, reflect upon it. Put yourself in someone else's position."

Anon-E-moose wrote:
This is an interesting list of fallacious arguments, many of them used by those wishing to troll

http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html


Next time you see a person use one of these, tell him or her instead that such an argument was used;
it ends the argumentation rather quick, and doesn't leave the chance of it being accepted by other individuals that believe that individual.

When one says "All ravens are black; I'm holding a raven behind my back, which color is it?", there are many endings to that story;
one of them being the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raven_paradox where you can keep going on about unless you have
a sound reasoning you can agree on about all the common sense and non-sense arguments that may arise...

Discussing the Raven paradox with or without that Wikipedia site at hand to refer to makes a huge difference.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aCOSwt
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 2537
Location: Hilbert space

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomWij wrote:
Discussing the Raven paradox with or without that Wikipedia site at hand to refer to makes a huge difference.

<trolling>
:?
:idea:
So... considering we get here 6 non-trolling-contributors and 1 gentoo-dev.
A- Either I find the 6 non-trolling-contributors and can conclude that there are, as part of this thread, no non-trolling-gentoo-dev,
B- Or... I find the gentoo-dev and realize that he is actually trolling.
</trolling> :twisted:
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TomWij
Developer
Developer


Joined: 04 Jul 2012
Posts: 1551

PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aCOSwt wrote:

<trolling>
:?
:idea:
So... considering we get here 6 non-trolling-contributors and 1 gentoo-dev.
A- Either I find the 6 non-trolling-contributors and can conclude that there are, as part of this thread, no non-trolling-gentoo-dev,
B- Or... I find the gentoo-dev and realize that he is actually trolling.
</trolling> :twisted:


:( <trolling> :D
That's a limited choice.
8) </trolling> :P :roll: :wink:
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Gentoo Forums Feedback All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum