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Che Guevara in 10 (Not So) Great Quotes
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Muso
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:40 pm    Post subject: Che Guevara in 10 (Not So) Great Quotes Reply with quote

Che Guevara

1) “Youth must refrain from ungrateful questioning of governmental mandates. Instead, they must dedicate themselves to study, work and military service.”

2) “Youth should learn to think and act as a mass. It is criminal to think as individuals!”

3) “The victory of Socialism is well worth millions of atomic victims!”

4) “We must do away with all newspapers. A revolution cannot be accomplished with freedom of the press.”

5) “To send men to the firing squad, judicial proof is unnecessary. These procedures are an archaic bourgeois detail. This is a revolution! And a revolutionary must become a cold killing machine motivated by pure hate.”

6) “Hatred is the central element of our struggle! Hatred so violent that it propels a human being beyond his natural limitations, making him a violent and cold-blooded killing machine. Our soldiers must be thus.”

7) “The blacks, those magnificent examples of the African race who have conserved their racial purity by a lack of affinity with washing, have seen their patch invaded by a different kind of slave: The Portugese.”

8.) “The black is indolent and fanciful, he spends his money on frivolity and drink; the European comes from a tradition of working and saving which follows him to this corner of America and drives him to get ahead.”

9) “I fired a .32 caliber bullet into the right hemisphere of his brain which came out through his left temple. He moaned for a few moments, then died.”

10) “I’d like to confess, Papa, at that moment I discovered that I really like killing.”


TFA
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where can I get a T-shirt?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Where can I get a T-shirt?
++

I was just thinking "This stuff is great t-shirt material." Pun not intended.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmmm, all the quotes seem to be a fiction. follow the links to the source half are attributed to wiki quotes and of those which are 1 is disputed because it has no evidence, 2 dont exist on the site and the other is heavily misquoted regards the atom bomb. as for the other source which apparently holds the rest it links to a advertisement only.

Che Guevera http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Che_Guevara
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, 60% of the quotes are attributed to a book:
http://www.amazon.com/Exposing-Real-Che-Guevara-Idolize/dp/1595230521

Of the remaining four,

#3: The atomic quote is not much of a misquote:

“The victory of Socialism is well worth millions of atomic victims!”

vs

"If the missiles had remained we would have used them against the very heart of America including New York. We must never establish peaceful coexistence. In this struggle to the death between two systems we must gain the ultimate victory. We must walk the path of liberation even if it costs millions of atomic victims."

I would call the first quote an accurate precis of the second quote. Wikiquote provided a book as the reference for the second quote:
The Nuclear Deception : Nikita Khrushchev and the Cuban Missile Crisis (2002) by Servando Gonzalez, p. 111

#5: Disputed: Sources are provided, but the primary source itself offers no source for the quote.

#7: May not be present in WikiQuote, but it may have been removed, since it appears to be a widely cited excerpt from his diary. For example:
http://www.afropunk.com/profiles/blogs/che-guevara-a-racist-a-glimpse

#8: Same as #7; apparently an excerpt from Che Guevera's own diary.

His diary has only recently been released to the public. I can't read it, maybe you can. I think this may be it:
http://www.chebolivia.org/
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Last edited by Bones McCracker on Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
2) “Youth should learn to think and act as a mass. It is criminal to think as individuals!”
The Japanese work on this principle and they seem to be doing well.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
Quote:
2) “Youth should learn to think and act as a mass. It is criminal to think as individuals!”
The Japanese work on this principle and they seem to be doing well.

They are big-time lemmings. So are most East Asians, in my opinion.

We seem to be increasingly so in the West as well. Collectivism, ho!
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
Quote:
2) “Youth should learn to think and act as a mass. It is criminal to think as individuals!”
The Japanese work on this principle and they seem to be doing well.


The Japanee don't wish to destroy their country by stealing from others. Nor are they so thick with envy that they hate those born into wealth. They admire positive traits, and focus their lives on eliminating negative traits.

They have the most superior culture on the planet... they just have no natural resources.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
They have the most superior culture on the planet
Salarymen and other similar traits prevent me from agreeing.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
They have the most superior culture on the planet....

other than being racist.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Muso wrote:
They have the most superior culture on the planet....

other than being racist.


As opposed to the USA with our Department of Justice ignoring any attacks against white people? 8)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
notageek wrote:
Quote:
2) “Youth should learn to think and act as a mass. It is criminal to think as individuals!”
The Japanese work on this principle and they seem to be doing well.


The Japanee don't wish to destroy their country by stealing from others. Nor are they so thick with envy that they hate those born into wealth. They admire positive traits, and focus their lives on eliminating negative traits.

They have the most superior culture on the planet... they just have no natural resources.
I like the Japanese for these traits.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
Muso wrote:
notageek wrote:
Quote:
2) “Youth should learn to think and act as a mass. It is criminal to think as individuals!”
The Japanese work on this principle and they seem to be doing well.


The Japanee don't wish to destroy their country by stealing from others. Nor are they so thick with envy that they hate those born into wealth. They admire positive traits, and focus their lives on eliminating negative traits.

They have the most superior culture on the planet... they just have no natural resources.
I like the Japanese for these traits.


Me too ;)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the Japanese. However, you must admit, they are one of the most collectivist cultures on Earth, socially (not economically).
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the point. Most "cultures" are "collectivist" as in they think alike. And that is not always a bad thing.

The Japanese are collectivist. They're doing really well.
The Americans are collectivist. They think they're individuals and all of them think alike. Well at least 50% at any given time. They're doing well.
The Germans are collectivist. They're doing well.

Now let's look at some of the most independent cultures, like the Indians. No two Indians think alike. And we have in excess of 1billion of them. Look where they are and where they could have been.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
I like the Japanese. However, you must admit, they are one of the most collectivist cultures on Earth, socially (not economically).


They have tatemae. Their tatemae is powerful, I can pick our a group of Japanese from a crowd of American born Japanese... instantly.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
That's the point. Most "cultures" are "collectivist" as in they think alike. And that is not always a bad thing.

The Japanese are collectivist. They're doing really well.
The Americans are collectivist. They think they're individuals and all of them think alike. Well at least 50% at any given time. They're doing well.
The Germans are collectivist. They're doing well.

Now let's look at some of the most independent cultures, like the Indians. No two Indians think alike. And we have in excess of 1billion of them. Look where they are and where they could have been.


The Japanese celebrate their unique, individual geniuses. And expect others to emulate.

The USA rewards mere "participation", even when forced.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
That's the point. Most "cultures" are "collectivist" as in they think alike. And that is not always a bad thing.

The Japanese are collectivist. They're doing really well.
The Americans are collectivist. They think they're individuals and all of them think alike. Well at least 50% at any given time. They're doing well.
The Germans are collectivist. They're doing well.

Now let's look at some of the most independent cultures, like the Indians. No two Indians think alike. And we have in excess of 1billion of them. Look where they are and where they could have been.

That's a rather black-and-white view of it. Collectivism isn't a toggle switch. There is a continuous range of it, and multiple dimensions (such as cultural, economic, military, legal, etc.)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're averaging out now, as we speak. :D
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
That's the point. Most "cultures" are "collectivist" as in they think alike. And that is not always a bad thing.

The Japanese are collectivist. They're doing really well.
The Americans are collectivist. They think they're individuals and all of them think alike. Well at least 50% at any given time. They're doing well.
The Germans are collectivist. They're doing well.

Now let's look at some of the most independent cultures, like the Indians. No two Indians think alike. And we have in excess of 1billion of them. Look where they are and where they could have been.


Ever been in Israel? There's old saying "two jews, three opinions", but the country is flourishing.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Israel. Compulsory conscription.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
Israel. Compulsory conscription.


Seen their neighbors? Can't really blame them.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The point was, Israel as a nation is "collectivist" or "homogeneous."
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
The point was, Israel as a nation is "collectivist" or "homogeneous."


They share a culture. A Superior culture. A culture which celebrates excellence, not stupidity. Do not confuse economic collectivism with that ;)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
The point was, Israel as a nation is "collectivist" or "homogeneous."

No, the point is, as I said, there is a continuous range of collectivism, and multiple dimensions. Military is just one.

See, I wasn't "averaging out"; I was right.

For example, you say Indians all think differently, and, therefore, aren't collectivist. India was fucking Communist, though, which is extreme collectivism on multiple dimensions. Average that.
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