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1clue
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hasufell wrote:
1clue wrote:
Even so, I'm not all that interested in a graphical installer. In every case, I want to start with the smallest working set, and then add the stuff I want on it. I have never seen a gui installer that does that.

Afair, the arch linux installer can do that. Would be very cool to have a set of binpkgs people can instantly install via a gentoo gui installer.


The problem here comes with defining the "smallest working set." For some, that means we have to pick the logger (if any) and compile the kernel. To others, the smallest working set has a fully functional Gnome environment on it.

Quote:

1clue wrote:
The simple answer here is to use Gentoo for the things you care about configuring, and use something else for the quick and dirty installs. Or, as I mentioned above, make your own stage 4.

Yeah, but such an installer would definitely attract more people to gentoo, so none of us would object to it. But again: it doesn't have to be invented by a gentoo dev. Start hacking or even place bounties on this issue if you care that much.


Is Gentoo so lacking in membership? Is there a danger of the distro becoming unmaintained? I see a real use case for what Gentoo is right now. That doesn't stop me from installing Ubuntu when I don't have time to mess with it though, or some other distro if that seems appropriate.
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hasufell
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1clue wrote:
The problem here comes with defining the "smallest working set." For some, that means we have to pick the logger (if any) and compile the kernel. To others, the smallest working set has a fully functional Gnome environment on it.

Well, try the arch installer.

1clue wrote:
Is Gentoo so lacking in membership?

Yes.

Keep in mind that there are 2 kinds of distros. Those that just take 90+% of another distros repository, add some random stuff, change the logo, and there you go (like ubuntu).

And then, there are those that do package _everything_ on their own. That is a huge thing. Look at how many developers we have and then look at the amount of packages in the tree (and I didn't mention portage, openrc, gentoo specific tools, infrastructure etc. yet).
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szatox
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khayyam wrote:

szatox ... but portage-latest.tar.{bz2,xz} is generated daily (...)

Actually I was thinking about portage package manager rather than snapshot tree. That install CD is built to be runtime-only and does not contain any dev tools. I don't even need to download tarball as I already have one machine with emerge --sync set as cron task and I can easily share it over LAN. The point is, the CD itself is bigger than stage 3, but it's not a maintainable gentoo image. I expected install CD to be something that allows you get a kick start (particularly becouse it's HUGE for a minimal linux runtime environment - much bigger than full stage3).
I just don't understand why minimal iso is at the same time so big and cripled. I wouldn't mind the way it is if the minimal CD was like 20MB But it's not 20, it's 250 while stage3 is 160. 90 MB is more than enough to make stage3 bootable, so why make people download both, iso and stage3 when at cost of only a few MB (if any) an iso image alone might be a convenient way to shoot gentoo at hard drive first, and follow handbook later?
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1clue
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hasufell wrote:
1clue wrote:
The problem here comes with defining the "smallest working set." For some, that means we have to pick the logger (if any) and compile the kernel. To others, the smallest working set has a fully functional Gnome environment on it.

Well, try the arch installer.


Why? I don't want a graphical installer. The one that's there is just fine.

Quote:

1clue wrote:
Is Gentoo so lacking in membership?

Yes.

Keep in mind that there are 2 kinds of distros. Those that just take 90+% of another distros repository, add some random stuff, change the logo, and there you go (like ubuntu).

And then, there are those that do package _everything_ on their own. That is a huge thing. Look at how many developers we have and then look at the amount of packages in the tree (and I didn't mention portage, openrc, gentoo specific tools, infrastructure etc. yet).


I get that. Yes, it's a huge thing. But when we start having graphical installers then all of a sudden the Ubuntu guys are coming over, and they'll expect it to work like Ubuntu does, no matter what goes on underneath.

There are dozens of maintained distros like Ubuntu. There are not nearly so many like Gentoo. Most computer users who want to try Linux will pick something like Ubuntu, because that's appealing to them. Fine by me.

IMO Gentoo needs to concentrate on doing what it does and maybe improving the process rather than on being like everyone else. If Gentoo were like everyone else, who would be maintaining a highly configurable source-based distro? The more tools you put in the way the fewer options you have in configuration and flexibility.
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2014 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hasufell wrote:
1clue wrote:
The simple answer here is to use Gentoo for the things you care about configuring, and use something else for the quick and dirty installs. Or, as I mentioned above, make your own stage 4.

Yeah, but such an installer would definitely attract more people to gentoo, so none of us would object to it.

Actually there is a valid objection: that someone using such an installer (to get past that "omg! 4 hours before one of our paid admins has a working Gentoo install") has nfc how to maintain their install afterwards.

By the time you've done 3 working Gentoo installs (as in real machines that carry on running Gentoo in real-world usage) a Gentoo install doesn't take that long. And if you can't do a Gentoo install, you have no business being paid to maintain one.

That said, we use an installer script for Gentoo installs, but it came about by accident: we needed chroot installs to get /etc/warning working in update for expat, which my boss would not allow us to test out anywhere but a chroot til it was working correctly; only then were we allowed to do the expat upgrade on work-machines. By the time we'd done that, it wasn't much more to get menus for hard-disk partitioning etc, although we did have a library of bash code to do most of the heavy lifting, so we could focus on the actual tasks as opposed to utility functions. Again, that was worked on in VMs (VMWare-server specifically) and I lost track of how many times we ran it, including at least 15 times on my laptop. (It's never ever done right when you think it is; there's always more issues which only come up on a real or end-user machine, that you just didn't account for.)

It's quite freaky to watch a machine run through a pre-configured Gentoo installation on its own. Though we didn't automate the kernel; we were waiting for lspci -k to enter stable; now I think I'd use one of pappy's seeds as a basis, and work on automating from such a config, since they clearly work. Still it's very odd to see it redoing what it does, booting off a minimal CD, and then you get used to it and let it run via ssh without even checking. Realising the latter was the oddest feeling.

I agree with 1clue that "when we start having graphical installers then all of a sudden the Ubuntu guys are coming over, and they'll expect it to work like Ubuntu does, no matter what goes on underneath."

We really don't need that, and nor do those users. It'll just lead to more time wasted on all sides, and resentment/ill-feeling from people who shouldn't even have been considering running Gentoo, since they never had any interest in maintaining it.

I certainly don't want Gentoo to dumb-down any more than it already has. Idiot-boxes don't work, which is why I am on Gentoo. Attempts to make it into one are not merely misguided: they actively threaten the distro as an ongoing work, imo.
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cwr
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another problem is keeping the installer up to date - I suspect installers need quite a bit of maintenance to keep in touch with changing specifications. I use a few simple scripts to install Gentoo from scratch, and each time I run them (at 6 month intervals or thereabouts) they need some small tweaks and changes to keep up with the new Gentoo.

Will
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steveL
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will, yeah that is a problem, though it can be remedied by collaboration on the forums. There's the recent easy-installer thread for one (though I wouldn't like to keep up with systemd and initramfs-building myself, so I'm glad someone else is.)

A GUI installer though would bring people expecting things just to work, and unprepared for maintenance; we used to have them on the forums when the GLI was active, as I recall. Though it may be inevitable given enough people collaborating to build one, I personally don't think it's a good idea for that reason. You just end up wasting everyone's time, and people leave with a bad experience, which they then naturally talk about, to form negative myths about Gentoo, based on a misconception fostered by providing a GUI installer (ie: that you can point and click your way through maintaining a Gentoo install.)
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hasufell
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steveL wrote:
hasufell wrote:
1clue wrote:
The simple answer here is to use Gentoo for the things you care about configuring, and use something else for the quick and dirty installs. Or, as I mentioned above, make your own stage 4.

Yeah, but such an installer would definitely attract more people to gentoo, so none of us would object to it.

Actually there is a valid objection: that someone using such an installer (to get past that "omg! 4 hours before one of our paid admins has a working Gentoo install") has nfc how to maintain their install afterwards.

I responded to that before, but again:
this is a wild assumption without any proof. I know a lot of knowledgeable people who wouldn't try gentoo just because it's too much work, not because they are not smart/skilled enough. The handbook is a collection of "stupid" instructions. None of them are complicated. Don't exaggerate just because you feel "awesome" by being a gentoo user.

People have priorities... that's what it boils down to.
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steveL
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hasufell wrote:
steveL wrote:
Actually there is a valid objection: that someone using such an installer (to get past that "omg! 4 hours before one of our paid admins has a working Gentoo install") has nfc how to maintain their install afterwards.

I responded to that before, but again:
this is a wild assumption without any proof.

No it's not.
Quote:
I know a lot of knowledgeable people who wouldn't try gentoo just because it's too much work, not because they are not smart/skilled enough.

I never said anything about being smart or skilled, so all that statement gives is an insight into your mind.
Quote:
The handbook is a collection of "stupid" instructions. None of them are complicated.

Yes, and K&R is a very easy to read book. So what?

That doesn't say anything at all about the insight you gain into a Linux install, by following those instructions to bring up real hardware.
Quote:
Don't exaggerate just because you feel "awesome" by being a gentoo user.

Oh please, don't talk crap just because you feel like putting someone down today.
Quote:
People have priorities... that's what it boils down to.

Yes, and if they don't have time to prioritise learning about how Gentoo is put together, they'll soon have other priorities that mean they write off maintaining it as "too much work", wasting time all round.
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hasufell
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steveL wrote:
hasufell wrote:
steveL wrote:
Actually there is a valid objection: that someone using such an installer (to get past that "omg! 4 hours before one of our paid admins has a working Gentoo install") has nfc how to maintain their install afterwards.

I responded to that before, but again:
this is a wild assumption without any proof.

No it's not.

I still don't see any proof, not even an indication.
steveL wrote:
Quote:
I know a lot of knowledgeable people who wouldn't try gentoo just because it's too much work, not because they are not smart/skilled enough.

I never said anything about being smart or skilled, so all that statement gives is an insight into your mind.

You just ignored the argument completely by jumping into the "comment on terminology instead" way.
steveL wrote:

Quote:
The handbook is a collection of "stupid" instructions. None of them are complicated.

Yes, and K&R is a very easy to read book. So what?

Now we are almost in troll land.
steveL wrote:
That doesn't say anything at all about the insight you gain into a Linux install, by following those instructions to bring up real hardware.

I didn't mean to say anything about that. There are a lot of people who already have the insight, but wouldn't bother to try gentoo, because of reasons already explained.
steveL wrote:
Quote:
People have priorities... that's what it boils down to.

Yes, and if they don't have time to prioritise learning about how Gentoo is put together, they'll soon have other priorities that mean they write off maintaining it as "too much work", wasting time all round.

The parts of the handbook that actually deal with GENTOO internals start right AFTER the installation mess.
steveL wrote:
Quote:
Don't exaggerate just because you feel "awesome" by being a gentoo user.

Oh please, don't talk crap just because you feel like putting someone down today.

Like putting people down because they don't care about obsolete installation procedures and saying they probably don't have what it takes to run gentoo? Err.
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steveL
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck with trolling hasufell; I'll refrain from getting into your very deliberate, personally-directed put-downs, and wilful misinterpretation of what I said.

Sad.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is basicly why, after 12 ( or 13 .. dont remember correctly ) of using gentoo, i am more and more inclined to get away from it.

Both you two are correct ! BOTH!

steveL is right, because if a use cannot be bothered to read the manual, at least once try "the full manual from scratch stuff", it probably is better on another distro.

hasufell is right, because Its bloody boring and annoying for someone who has been doing it for the last xx years.

i know gentoo pretty well, how to use it with openrc, how to use it with systemd, how to use it with mdadm, with fakeraid, with btrfs raid0 with no gpt partition.

i think i have tried it all, and 90% of things i tried we basicly just for the fun of it ( specially the cflags / -ofast / graphite / lto thing ( although here, coded some scripts that did most of the job , and it seemed fast, have to get back to it someday )).

so yeah , let me be a little arrogant here, but i have what it takes to use gentoo to ... er... browse the web at least.

BUT DAMN, i dont want to do this for the rest of my life... sure, it was fun the first five hundred times i installed gentoo ( fun also the gentoo to funtoo and back migration ) ... but it got boring

baseline:

Its good for people starting on Gentoo to do it the handbook style, no doubts there. but completly annoying to do always the same thing over and over and over...

Now, me thinking about leaving gentoo comes to this :

both of you are correct, but discussion starts and ends here, with just insults. Nothing gets done. really ... gentoo just stagnatted completly. Sure, and amazing really nice set of package tools. but what about the rest ?

GNU/Linux isnt just packages.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yagami wrote:
Its bloody boring and annoying for someone who has been doing it for the last xx years.

(...)

although here, coded some scripts that did most of the job
So... Where's the problem then? You have learned how to do that, then you automated it so you don't have to do that anymore. Looks like a perfect solution to me :)
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

szatox wrote:
yagami wrote:
Its bloody boring and annoying for someone who has been doing it for the last xx years.

(...)

although here, coded some scripts that did most of the job
So... Where's the problem then? You have learned how to do that, then you automated it so you don't have to do that anymore. Looks like a perfect solution to me :)


The scripts i did were not instalation scripts, were portage scripts.

But if they were, then
Great ... I mean, did it, its running on my machine, so the f*** with everybody else!!! lets not share not help not make it easy for anyone !

Its this attitude always in these forums : " My servers from 18 century are running just fine without it, gentoo doesnt need it "

I am amazed that if there were no DR in gentoo in the beginning, portage would not exist because " if a user cannot do ./configure , make , make install for every package, then he should not use gentoo ".

Somewhere on these forums, someone said recently that they did those instalation scripts. Why not share and improve on those ?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hasufell wrote:
steveL wrote:
hasufell wrote:
steveL wrote:
Actually there is a valid objection: that someone using such an installer (to get past that "omg! 4 hours before one of our paid admins has a working Gentoo install") has nfc how to maintain their install afterwards.

I responded to that before, but again:
this is a wild assumption without any proof.

No it's not.

I still don't see any proof, not even an indication.


It's not like you need to dig the forum like mad to get one...
wizardaeon wrote:
My system will boot into Gentoo now but It freezes when X tries to load. I dont have another 7 hours to reinstall Gentoo.I give up... I would really like to try Gentoo out. I consider myself a pretty smart guy
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szatox
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yagami, I think they have shared those scripts. Why not to take and use them? Or perhaps Puppet or something like that?
Also, If not making a graphical installer means we have bad attitude, bear in mind you haven't made graphical installer either, even though nobody can stop you. This means you have just as bad attitude as the rest of us. Mind the mirrors before you start pointing your fingers.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

szatox wrote:
yagami, I think they have shared those scripts. Why not to take and use them? Or perhaps Puppet or something like that?
Also, If not making a graphical installer means we have bad attitude, bear in mind you haven't made graphical installer either, even though nobody can stop you. This means you have just as bad attitude as the rest of us. Mind the mirrors before you start pointing your fingers.


szatox, obviously the bad attitude is not specific to this case, but a global attitude i see on these forums.
also i dunno about the sharing of those scripts, at least not on the forum topic.
and of course, having an installer is not the sole reason for it.

In your case, its the "your fixed it ... so ok ,what is the problem ?"

Why not "Yeah , you had to do that, its something missing in gentoo ... we should do something about that!"

What to do, would be something for the council to decide ( because anyones input here is highly ignored, it seems ) .
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yagami :
I also fail to see your emerge scripts in the forum...
Just found one when you use ppurka script and ask him enhancement, but i don't see anyone (so not you) to backup his ebuild addition for it in bugzilla.

What let you think you are better than anyone here then?
Don't get offend, i'm not saying you're badder than us, but you're certainly not better too.

I could only agree with you, if any installer for gentoo has to be made, it MUST be handle directly by council, as you cannot make a poor tool and only Council can warrant such tool to have a decent amount of devs working on it, backup with a descent amount of beta testers and helpers.
That's why nobody is really wishing to handle a script or installer program himself as official gentoo installation program. Many users share their script to install gentoo in the forum contrary to what you say, just you don't have so many, and their aiming is toward users that already use gentoo, not for new users.
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-950912.html
ps: be kind to point to a log of your irc query to council.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

krinn wrote:
yagami :
I also fail to see your emerge scripts in the forum...
Just found one when you use ppurka script and ask him enhancement, but i don't see anyone (so not you) to backup his ebuild addition for it in bugzilla.

What let you think you are better than anyone here then?
Don't get offend, i'm not saying you're badder than us, but you're certainly not better too.

I could only agree with you, if any installer for gentoo has to be made, it MUST be handle directly by council, as you cannot make a poor tool and only Council can warrant such tool to have a decent amount of devs working on it, backup with a descent amount of beta testers and helpers.
That's why nobody is really wishing to handle a script or installer program himself as official gentoo installation program. Many users share their script to install gentoo in the forum contrary to what you say, just you don't have so many, and their aiming is toward users that already use gentoo, not for new users.
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-950912.html
ps: be kind to point to a log of your irc query to council.



Dammit !!! I AM NOT SAYING I AM BETTER !
The scripts i made are for LTO package detection. I dunno if i have then still, but if i do, they are in my public gentoo portage bitbucket git. Feel free to ask url if you want it.
Yeah, i have been using gentoo for a long time and almost did no contribution. YES , i have the knowledge to contribute to gentoo ( not the time unfortunatly ), YES I SUCK !!! true !!!

Hum... thought that easy gentoo script was dead... very glad it isnt, gonna try to contact the author.

ps: no log to query the council... i dunno them... never talked to them. I dont have many messages in the forum and i dont "communicate" with gentoo users/devs alot. YES , I SUCK AND AM AN UNGRATEFULL BASTARD! but i would still love to see gentoo flourish and do "portage"'s to other distro areas.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yagami wrote:
I SUCK AND AM AN UNGRATEFULL BASTARD!

I'm not sure i should be glad to agree we're all bastards.

But i'm glad we agree on that point anyway :)
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

krinn wrote:
yagami wrote:
I SUCK AND AM AN UNGRATEFULL BASTARD!

I'm not sure i should be glad to agree we're all bastards.

But i'm glad we agree on that point anyway :)


thankkkksss :)

but its true ... i am ungratefull. last time i did a patch was for funtoo for genkernel.

there are probably many ways i could help gentoo but i dont. only recently i registered on the bugs.gentoo.org.
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krinn
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yagami wrote:
there are probably many ways i could help gentoo but i dont. only recently i registered on the bugs.gentoo.org.

Then be advise really to keep in mind your humble status, as if forum's attitude has shocked you, be prepare for something you cannot imagine in bugzilla. Even a monk can become a killer there as no bastards could beat an arrogant bastard... Good luck.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

krinn wrote:
yagami wrote:
there are probably many ways i could help gentoo but i dont. only recently i registered on the bugs.gentoo.org.

Then be advise really to keep in mind your humble status, as if forum's attitude has shocked you, be prepare for something you cannot imagine in bugzilla. Even a monk can become a killer there as no bastards could beat an arrogant bastard... Good luck.


LOL :) thanks for the advice.

Its funny, i never actually needed much of bugs.gentoo.org, in the early days ( 2002/2003 ) whenever i had a problem, someone on the forum were already discussing it or fixing it.

More importantly... in the early days ... gentoo people were so nice.

I miss those days ... :( now, one can get oneself killed if talking about DR, paludis, exherbo, systemd, graphic installers, etc.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys, can you just settle down a bit?

Really it comes down to one thing: Gentoo is one of a very few distros that allows you to go from almost the ground up. Only something like LFS is more configurable and that's not a distro.

There are lots of distros that are easy to set up and maintain. Most of us probably use one or more of those as well as Gentoo. Gentoo is for when you need something very specific to a task and don't trust the other distros which supposedly cater to that task.

Really it's like this:

  1. A graphical installer would be nice, as long as it's optional and doesn't force us into a box of using one particular package over another the way EVERY graphical installer tries.
  2. A graphical installer is nice, as long as it's not a prelude to "being more like Ubuntu" (Ubuntu is fine, I use it a lot).
  3. Automation is nice, as long as it automates what WE want (the collective but distinct 'I' of the Gentoo 'we')
  4. Easy to set up and maintain is nice, but not if the process requires us to do things in a way we don't like.


I don't know about you guys who have done hundreds of Gentoo installs. I've only done a dozen or so, and it's still a lot of work for me, each one. But that said, I'm happy to do that work because I want what I want. The day that somebody tells me I must use a package that I don't want to use, without what I consider to be compelling and irrefutable reasoning, is the day I stop using Gentoo. I haven't tried LFS yet because Gentoo still works for the situations where I want something special.

I object to Gentoo being a 'mainstream' distro because in becoming one it's going to look more like every other Linux distro. That inherently means I have more to undo before it becomes what I want it to be.

I already hear "Why doesn't it look more like Windows?" so often it makes me scream. Why doesn't it use <xyz>? Everyone else uses <xyz>, we should too! No, we shouldn't. If Gentoo were just like everything else, then there would be no reason to use Gentoo would there?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1clue wrote:
Guys, can you just settle down a bit?

Really it comes down to one thing: Gentoo is one of a very few distros that allows you to go from almost the ground up. Only something like LFS is more configurable and that's not a distro.

There are lots of distros that are easy to set up and maintain. Most of us probably use one or more of those as well as Gentoo. Gentoo is for when you need something very specific to a task and don't trust the other distros which supposedly cater to that task.

Really it's like this:

  1. A graphical installer would be nice, as long as it's optional and doesn't force us into a box of using one particular package over another the way EVERY graphical installer tries.
  2. A graphical installer is nice, as long as it's not a prelude to "being more like Ubuntu" (Ubuntu is fine, I use it a lot).
  3. Automation is nice, as long as it automates what WE want (the collective but distinct 'I' of the Gentoo 'we')
  4. Easy to set up and maintain is nice, but not if the process requires us to do things in a way we don't like.


I don't know about you guys who have done hundreds of Gentoo installs. I've only done a dozen or so, and it's still a lot of work for me, each one. But that said, I'm happy to do that work because I want what I want. The day that somebody tells me I must use a package that I don't want to use, without what I consider to be compelling and irrefutable reasoning, is the day I stop using Gentoo. I haven't tried LFS yet because Gentoo still works for the situations where I want something special.

I object to Gentoo being a 'mainstream' distro because in becoming one it's going to look more like every other Linux distro. That inherently means I have more to undo before it becomes what I want it to be.

I already hear "Why doesn't it look more like Windows?" so often it makes me scream. Why doesn't it use <xyz>? Everyone else uses <xyz>, we should too! No, we shouldn't. If Gentoo were just like everything else, then there would be no reason to use Gentoo would there?



I am on the side of "Gentoo really needs an installer/automation script/"installation portage" :)

I also dont want to drop any of the reasons you gave.

I guess my point of you really abides to : " I dont really care what the installer *install*s, as long as the system is up, emerge -e @world or emerge -uDN @world takes care of everything". Especially when people already have one or multiple /etc/portage configurations.

In any and no way do i think this "installer" should be "mandatory" :)
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