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creaker
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:23 pm    Post subject: How to remove systemd? Reply with quote

During kdelibs installation I accidentally discovered that systemd was fetched and installed. I tried to unmerge it but got a message that systemd not installed. WTF? I saw it was downloaded and built! Package systemd-204.tar.xz located under distfiles directory.
Any way to remove this crap? Or have I reinstall the system?
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Telemin
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you sure that a full blown systemd got installed? It may have just been udev, that comes out of the systemd tarball these days. If you grep through /var/log/portage/elog/summary.log you will find out for sure what happened though.

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Logicien
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In /etc/portage/make.conf, add -systemd to the USE flags variable and reemerge world. I never try that.
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Last edited by Logicien on Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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creaker
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

summary.log knows nothing about systemd package, but package is here. I do not think that the package has been loaded only to take up space on the disk.
No matter, all the systemd was installed or just a part of it. I do not want to have it at all. I haven't it at other gentoo boxes and I refuse to have it at this box. If it was built as part of udev without options to prevent it, then it is time to remove udev.
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creaker
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Logicien wrote:
In /etc/portage/make.conf, add -systemd to the USE flags variable and remerge world. I never try that.


I never had this flag enabled. It marked with "-" sign permanently at all my systems.
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Logicien
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With
Code:
euse -I systemd

you will know which packages are installed that support the systemd USE flag. Than with
Code:
equery u the-package-name

you can see if it's enabled or not. When a USE flag is enabled by default in the ebuild, I rarely disable it.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

systemd source file contain udev :twisted:
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creaker
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems I have to reinstall system. I tried to remove downloaded systemd package and re-emerge udev, but it pulls systemd tarball in again.
What udev replacement can be used? I thought it may be mdev, but with mdev I can't install xf86-input-evdev

Quote:
Recent versions of evdev x11-drivers/xf86-input-evdev and Chromium www-client/chromium require udev. They will not build without it.


Any suggestions?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Convert per https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Systemd :twisted:

At first, I hated systemd. Sometimes it seemed to not work just to spite me. But now that I have gotten the hang of it, I'm all set! Though I have to say I really wish there were better Gentoo-centric documentation on how to build a system with only systemd and never OpenRC. I also wish there were better (or at least more available and accessible) documentation for how to write systemd scripts especially w.r.t. networking.
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gerard82
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This got me curious.
So I checked my distfiles:No systemd and no udev either.
In /var/db/pkg/sys-fs I do have udev.
In /var/db/pkg/sys-apps I don't have systemd.
So question:what file in distfiles contains udev?
Gerard.

Edit:@creaker
Don't know about chromium but evdev only needs udev
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TomWij
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

creaker wrote:
Seems I have to reinstall system.


That won't make a difference.

creaker wrote:
Seems I have to reinstall system. I tried to remove downloaded systemd package and re-emerge udev, but it pulls systemd tarball in again.


Yes, it needs to be extracted from there. udev has been part of systemd for a while now.

creaker wrote:
Recent versions of evdev x11-drivers/xf86-input-evdev and Chromium www-client/chromium require udev. They will not build without it.


This sounds like what might have brought udev into your system; guess you'll either need to use them and use udev, or remove them and find alternatives. Other options include using old versions, but that's less reliable...

creaker wrote:
What udev replacement can be used?


Only those that satisfy virtual/udev; which are systemd, udev and eudev.

creaker wrote:
I thought it may be mdev, but with mdev I can't install xf86-input-evdev


mdev doesn't seem to be in the Portage tree.
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creaker
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Dachnaz
If you are married with systemd - be happy!
I'm using gentoo because it gives me ability to build system the way I want.
If I want to use the systemd, I will install Debian or Mageia or Arch or some other binary distro.
This topic is not about systemd migration, so please, do not post links to systemd wiki page.

@ gerard82
I didn't have it till now as well . But now I got it. Regardless "-systemd" use flag

I uploaded the screenshot, take a look:
http://i.imgur.com/xwYBSZ3.png

@ TomWij

Quote:
creaker wrote:
Recent versions of evdev x11-drivers/xf86-input-evdev and Chromium www-client/chromium require udev. They will not build without it.


This sounds like what might have brought udev into your system; guess you'll either need to use them and use udev, or remove them and find alternatives.


May be it is an alternative (from CRUX wiki):
Quote:
Since xorg-xf86-input-evdev needs udev to be built then you should use xorg-xf86-input-keyboard and xorg-xf86-input-mouse instead

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The Doctor
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mask it and add
Code:
NSTALL_MASK="${INSTALL_MASK}
/usr/lib/systemd"
That will keep it from being installed. I believe eudev will build without systemd.
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rudregues
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this a build time dependency?

Try this:
Code:
emerge --ask --depclean --with-bdeps=y

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Logicien
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of packages for examples, alsa-utils, samba, cups, acpid, dhcpcd, gpm, etc install the service files for Systemd even if there is no systemd USE flag for each that you can disable/enable. Udev by itself only install two systemd-udev man pages.

The basic Systemd commands like systemctl and journalctl are not installed, no Systemd packages are installed including the Systemd replacement for /sbin/init . So, Systemd cannot be used to start Init and replace Openrc. So until you install the systemd package, you will not be able to start on Systemd.

This let me think that Systemd have become a very popular distributions initscripts boot system and a standard the facto that make developpers and maintainers make possible to use their packages services with Systemd.

Maybe this behavior can be modify if the CONFIG_GENTOO_LINUX_INIT_SYSTEMD option is disabled in the kernel configuration.
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creaker
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudregues wrote:
Is this a build time dependency?

Try this:
Code:
emerge --ask --depclean --with-bdeps=y


this command tries to remove app-editors/nano.


Logicien wrote:

...Udev by itself only install two systemd-udev man pages.

The basic Systemd commands like systemctl and journalctl are not installed, no Systemd packages are installed including the Systemd replacement for /sbin/init ...


I think, 19 Mb is too much for 2 man pages...
It's a content of systemd-204.tar.xz package:
http://i.imgur.com/2u7M4Ot.png
The left panel shows package content and the right is content of src subdir.
Why all this crap was downloaded if it will not be installed? For two man pages? Is it a Gentoo or is it a Windows?

OK, probably it possible to switch to something like eudev without re-installation, but I prefer to have a clear system.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not only possible, it's easy. See Moving from udev (171-r10) to eudev (1.2-r1).

For the nano issue, that's a feature, not a bug. See --depclean wants to remove nano! (Surprised me, too, first time it happened.) In short, you've installed another package that satisfies virtual/editor so Portage considers nano redundant. To keep --depclean from removing it, just explicitly add it to world:
Code:
emerge --noreplace nano
See? Easy. :wink:

- John
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creaker
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ John R. Graham
Thanks for your link.

@ Logicien
it doesn't looks as man pages:
http://i.imgur.com/tTK0Zgp.png
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TomWij
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those files are not installed by the packages being discussed in this topic, they are just random files from random packages; use INSTALL_MASK if you don't want them (see `man make.conf` for details).
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

creaker wrote:

@ Logicien
it doesn't look as man pages:
http://i.imgur.com/tTK0Zgp.png


Those are installed by other programs you have installed, they install systemd units by default just like the initscripts are installed by default for non-openrc users.
Also the reason you have the systemd source tarball is because you have installed udev, if you had udev installed before you would have had it then too (its been like that for quite some time, systemd is not built/installed when you do this, just udev).

Also, I wouldn't bother re-installing your entire system just because of the file name of a source tarball, despite the incredibly stupid things I have read in this thread I don't quite wish for you to waste your time on such stupid things. If you don't want that source tarball, find a udev substitute and if you don't want those files installed by other programs you can just mask them from being installed and remove what is there now.
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creaker
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomWij wrote:
Those files are not installed by the packages being discussed in this topic, they are just random files from random packages; use INSTALL_MASK if you don't want them (see `man make.conf` for details).


Now it turned out that not only udev pulls systemd parts into the system. Fine!
I think chattr +i /usr/lib/systemd will help to find which one writes into this place.

@ rorgoroth
Do not care about my time. I do not have to re-install system manually. My box has core i5 inside, not a Curta.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, first part done:
Code:
mkfs.ext4 /dev/sda5
mount /dev/sda5 /mnt/gentoo
cp stage3-amd64-* /mnt/gentoo
cd /mnt/gentoo
tar xvjpf stage3-amd64-*

/usr/lib/systemd directory with four services already here. Fine! It built into stage3 by default. Let see which packages will create dbus.target, sockets.target and multi-user.target. Probably it will be dbus...
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creaker
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Code:
chattr +i /usr/lib/systemd
emerge -av app-misc/mc
...
...

!!! Cannot write to '/usr/lib/systemd'
>>> Failed to install sys-lib/gpm-1.20.7-r1


sys-lib/gpm that pulled by app-misc/mc has something to put into systemd directory.

Edited
Sorry, it is not a syslog-ng, it is midnight commander pulls sys-lib/gpm.
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If reinstalling floats your boat, that's okay, but several people have told you that you can achieve the same results without reinstalling. Check out the INSTALL_MASK variable in make.conf. After adding files to INSTALL_MASK, a simple --oneshot re-emerge of the offending package will remove the systemd stigmata.

- John
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gerard82
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have -systemd set globally.
Apparently this whole thing is harmless.
I moved /usr/lib64/systemd to a /root directory and rebooted,no problem.
The total size is ~15K.
I still wonder what ebuild contains udev.
Gerard.

Edit:It will be recreated as soon as you install something that might need systemd (in case you switch to sytemd).
I re-installed cups and /usr/lib64/systemd was recreated with the cups entry.
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Last edited by gerard82 on Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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