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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 9:08 pm    Post subject: 13 yr old with toy gun blown away by cops Reply with quote

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The sheriff's department said the deputies involved had been patrolling in Santa Rosa, which is about 55 miles north of San Francisco, on Tuesday afternoon when they saw someone who appeared to be holding an assault weapon.

"The two deputies repeatedly ordered the subject to drop the rifle and at some point immediately thereafter, the deputies fired several rounds from their handguns at the subject striking him several times," the department said. "The subject fell to the ground and landed on top of the rifle he was carrying."

After securing the area, deputies realized that the weapon was a replica, the press release said. They also found a plastic handgun.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/23/us-usa-california-shooting-idUSBRE99M0VU20131023

That's no "replica", by the way.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very sad.

I don't understand why anyone would let their children play with toy guns in the first place.

If you feel like you just HAVE to get them toy guns why not get something that looks like it's from a sci-fi film. Sure that's not a guarantee a cop won't shoot your child dead, but it certainly helps the odds if the "gun" is some florescent color, makes zapping or buzzing noises and has blinking lights all over it.

Without many more details I'm not sure if I feel that the officers did a good job or not.

Every which way you consider it though it is a tragic event.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

very sad indeed.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That looks enough like an AK-47 to me. My question is...what idiot parents let their kid run around outside with that thing? That's just asking for trouble. Especially since the "replica" has an attached magazine.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
That looks enough like an AK-47 to me. My question is...what idiot parents let their kid run around outside with that thing? That's just asking for trouble. Especially since the "replica" has an attached magazine.

Especially if you're Hispanic or black and living in the suburbs. The only thing that could say "Hey, trigger-happy cops! Shoot me!" more is if he had a beard and was yelling "Allahu akbar!"

I hope nobody tries to dress up as Rambo or Heavy Weapons Dude for Halloween.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To paraphrase Chris Rock, I'm not sayin' I agree, I'm just sayin' I understand.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
That looks enough like an AK-47 to me. My question is...what idiot parents let their kid run around outside with that thing? That's just asking for trouble. Especially since the "replica" has an attached magazine.
Airsoft guns make it a point to look authentic. Some of them manufacture on licenses.

I can't really see blame for the cops, they saw an AK-47.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't believe you guys. Since when is holding a gun, even an assault rifle, worthy of being gunned down in the street. Even the cops' story, which is almost certainly taking some liberties with the truth, they blew him away merely because he didn't drop the weapon when told to (probably because he was paralyzed with fear and/or couldn't understand what they were screaming at him).

They panicked, and they took the life of a child who wasn't doing anything illegal.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
I can't believe you guys. Since when is holding a gun, even an assault rifle, worthy of being gunned down in the street. Even the cops' story, which is almost certainly taking some liberties with the truth, they blew him away merely because he didn't drop the weapon when told to (probably because he was paralyzed with fear and/or couldn't understand what they were screaming at him).

They panicked, and they took the life of a child who wasn't doing anything illegal.
If anything, his NOT doing anything is all the more reason they shouldn't have murdered him. If he reacted quickly, they'd at least be able to plausibly claim they thought he was going to do something. For everyone's safety, not the least of which would be officers themselves, I'm surprised they aren't all wearing tactical cameras. Then they have full video, not agenda edited versions (I'm speaking in general, not this incident).
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The jackbooted pigs in California are f'n useless!!!
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
I can't believe you guys. Since when is holding a gun, even an assault rifle, worthy of being gunned down in the street. Even the cops' story, which is almost certainly taking some liberties with the truth, they blew him away merely because he didn't drop the weapon when told to (probably because he was paralyzed with fear and/or couldn't understand what they were screaming at him).

They panicked, and they took the life of a child who wasn't doing anything illegal.
Well, I do agree with you but was trying to see how this was seen by cops.

Moreover, I believe police are only allowed to use lethal force, only when they're shot at. Is that correct?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When they believe their life is in danger, or the life of others in the area. If you refer back to the woman that was killed in D.C., she wasn't armed, but did pose a threat because she was plausibly using her vehicle as a weapon.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BonezTheGoon wrote:

I don't understand why anyone would let their children play with toy guns in the first place.


Children play with anything they see in media, books, newspapers, around them. Nobody has to "let them" do that, they do that by themselves. I don't understand why would anyone think otherwise, were you not a child once?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am going to donate some money for the poor kids in the USA who did not get their AK-47 replica from the US American NRA yet.
Some more training material for the police officers is also badly needed:
Mini-Me tiny terrorist
Killer Zombies
Training camp
Another training camp
Most dangerous trainees - shoot on sight!

Notes to terrorists:
Women and India: RUN!
Don't buy from the CIA.

LOL USA
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
I can't believe you guys. Since when is holding a gun, even an assault rifle, worthy of being gunned down in the street. Even the cops' story, which is almost certainly taking some liberties with the truth, they blew him away merely because he didn't drop the weapon when told to (probably because he was paralyzed with fear and/or couldn't understand what they were screaming at him).

They panicked, and they took the life of a child who wasn't doing anything illegal.
but he had a gun so it satisfies the "if only he had a gun" clause to justify it
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
I can't believe you guys. Since when is holding a gun, even an assault rifle, worthy of being gunned down in the street. Even the cops' story, which is almost certainly taking some liberties with the truth, they blew him away merely because he didn't drop the weapon when told to (probably because he was paralyzed with fear and/or couldn't understand what they were screaming at him).

They panicked, and they took the life of a child who wasn't doing anything illegal.
but he had a gun so it satisfies the "if only he had a gun" clause to justify it


disarm the police, I say. That will stop about 600 murders in the US/year.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
That looks enough like an AK-47 to me. My question is...what idiot parents let their kid run around outside with that thing? That's just asking for trouble. Especially since the "replica" has an attached magazine.

Especially if you're Hispanic or black and living in the suburbs. The only thing that could say "Hey, trigger-happy cops! Shoot me!" more is if he had a beard and was yelling "Allahu akbar!"

I hope nobody tries to dress up as Rambo or Heavy Weapons Dude for Halloween.


george zimmerman.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
. . . a child who wasn't doing anything illegal.


Sorry to burst your bubble, but that weapon (were it real) with that clip (were it real) is illegal in California.

I don't personally think it SHOULD be illegal. I'm just sayin'.

I agree with the overall tone of everything else you said that I cut out with the ellipses though.

So perceptions aside, which unfortunately in a case like this is paramount and cannot be discarded, yes of course technically the child was not doing anything illegal.

Prenj wrote:
Nobody has to "let them" do that


Seriously?!?!? Someone paid for that toy gun. I doubt it was the child. If it was the child then the parents are still responsible for letting the child either have the money, or keep the toy, or both. You obviously do not have children. Yes I remember being a child. Yes I remember pretending to hold a similar weapon when playing, but I used my imagination -- not a toy that could be confused for the real thing.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BonezTheGoon wrote:
Seriously?!?!? Someone paid for that toy gun. I doubt it was the child. If it was the child then the parents are still responsible for letting the child either have the money, or keep the toy, or both. You obviously do not have children. Yes I remember being a child. Yes I remember pretending to hold a similar weapon when playing, but I used my imagination -- not a toy that could be confused for the real thing.

Yeah, seriously. Children have allowance money. You save the money in a jar, and then buy whatever you want. I used to buy firecrackers, then condoms (cos they were fun to fill with water and throw around). I didn't raid my fathers stash of porn magazines, I had my own. Among other stashes. You get the idea.
The point is to inform the child and boot up a cognitive process inside their heads so that they can chose better. Not to drive them around to school, "save" them from everything, and control their environment to the extent that if left without supervision they might actually die.
Same goes for cops. Where the fuck was common sense "process" in their heads nowadays? Has everybody gone and turned autistic all of a sudden?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BonezTheGoon wrote:
Sorry to burst your bubble, but that weapon (were it real) with that clip (were it real) is illegal in California.
Yes, the "looks scary" laws are wonderful. The clip could be legal if it were only capable of holding whatever asinine limit they've decided is "safe." If it were a real weapon and only semi-automatic, there's no reason it should be illegal. Aesthetics do not make something dangerous. Panicking over nothing is actually dangerous.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BonezTheGoon wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
. . . a child who wasn't doing anything illegal.


Sorry to burst your bubble, but that weapon (were it real) with that clip (were it real) is illegal in California.

I don't personally think it SHOULD be illegal. I'm just sayin'.

I agree with the overall tone of everything else you said that I cut out with the ellipses though.

So perceptions aside, which unfortunately in a case like this is paramount and cannot be discarded, yes of course technically the child was not doing anything illegal.

Prenj wrote:
Nobody has to "let them" do that


Seriously?!?!? Someone paid for that toy gun. I doubt it was the child. If it was the child then the parents are still responsible for letting the child either have the money, or keep the toy, or both. You obviously do not have children. Yes I remember being a child. Yes I remember pretending to hold a similar weapon when playing, but I used my imagination -- not a toy that could be confused for the real thing.


It's not real, the photo taken clearly shows screw holes where the plastic stock came together.

The issue here is two-fold.

- Dumbass father let him player with a realistic toy gun
- Dumbass father probably didn't teach the kid English (a detail missed in the previous article).

Another case of Multi-Culti FTW.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amazing how often people blame the victim.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Amazing how often people blame the victim.


The kid didn't know any better, and I feel really sorry for him.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's another one. Schizophrenic guy off his medication is sitting in a chair in the street with a knife. His mother calls 911. Cops, knowing full well he is mentally ill, come and blow his ass away, saying he lunged at them with the knife. (How many times do you hear that?)

Only, in this case, somebody got it on video. The guy was just standing there, nowhere near them, not moving a muscle, and they fired four shots into his stomach. See the video.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57609162-504083/dallas-officer-caught-on-video-shooting-mentally-ill-man-is-fired-could-face-charges/
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. With video and additional scrutiny in recent years, I'm surprised they aren't a little more careful. Many incidents seem very avoidable. And I'm a bit proponent of not jumping to conclusions with selectively edited video. This one doesn't appear to be that way. Even if he did something prior, he didn't appear to be at that moment.
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