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Dominique_71
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:28 pm    Post subject: Fvwm-Crystal, the return Reply with quote

After a few years without development, FVWM-Crystal is back on track. A few releases was done in the past few months, each one with improvements, new features and bug fixes.

The ground is always the same, FVWM as window manager, but I would say Crystal is to Fvwm what Lxde is to Openbox.

Some interesting features are a FreeDesktop compliant applications menu with support for the additional categories (even in Gentoo... :D ), support for the XDG user directories and for the mounted partitions with configurable icons on the desktop, 17 different recipes (or themes), easy to use font preferences dialog with full xft support, and more.

It is 4 possibilities for the desktop icons: no icon, ROX_Filer managed, Nautilus managed or FVWM-Crystal managed. The new FVWM-Crystal icom manager have its own preference system which let you choose which group of icons you want ($HOME, the XDG user dirs and the mounted partitions) and which actions or file managers are bind to these icons. That way, any possible file manager can be used with them.

These icons are from the dual png icon themes from Ken Lester, which are really nice and very popular on the Amiga OS. It was possible, thanks to Fvwm incredible versatility, to implement the 2 picture of these icons.

One step forward bring another one. That made possible for the preferences to not use a restart anymore.

Other interesting features are translucency support and a Bling module - using transset and xcompmgr (may or may not work depending to your graphic card/driver combination); an Expose clone, DVDNAV and DVB support with the MPlayer control; and last but not least, the FullScreen mode provide an Amiga OS like stack of full-screened applications. See this like an innovative way to flow through the desktop space without compromising the traditional X multiple desktop pages. Try it and you will feel it like a must have feature for any decent desktop.

This last function alone is a great demonstration of Fwm incredible ability to combine power and versatility.

To be noted: FVWM-Crystal will not screw up existing FVWM configurations, and will work out of the box even if you know nothing to Fvwm.

For screenshoots, see the website. And guess what, the last version is in portage. :D
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

YES! :)

I'm using Fvwm-Crystal for a week now. It's my #1 candidate for replacing full-blown mega bloated slow good old KDE Plasma. Well, I didn't login to KDE by now, so I've moved already. Still have to find out all the tweaking, but after emerge it's ready for daily use. The default layout and menus, left/right/middle mouse clicks are very handy. The menus even got better by running the Application Menu script, and I've made the fonts a bit smaller, but that was all.

It's looking really nice!

Cheers!
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks :D

To customize the application menu is explained in the documentation: menu Fvwm-Crystal -> Fvwm-Crystal -> Fvwm-Crystal documentation -> Applications database.

This man page explain a lot of things about the scripts used to generate the manu and the format of the menu entries, but in fact it is very easy. You can also take a look into the original menu entries in /usr/share/fvwm-crystal/fvwm/applications, or copy them in ~/fvwm-crystal/applications for editing or renaming. You may also prefer to browse the documentation on the website.

You can even make a group menu in /etc, This can be useful into a multi users deployment. The menu entries here will be applied between the ones in /usr/... and the ones in ~/fvwm-crystal/applications.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since I am an old fvwm user, so much advertisement was enough for me to give fvwm-crystal a try, finally.
At first glance, it made a very good impression, but after deciding to really use it for testing, I am somewhat disappointed since it switch off some of features I liked most about fvwm:

It forces an Nx1 layout (which is bad if for some reason a window insists on getting higher than your screen).
Moreover, it hides the very practical display of window size and position for moving and resizing.
You cannot easily use ALT+TAB to cycle through the windows.

Also, it is full of bugs and inaccuracies: It uses bashisms like [[ ]] throughout in files which are #!/bin/sh, there is a lot of buggy code llike
Code:
PipeRead "echo *Fvwm...."
which can break horrible if you have a file matching *Fvwm... in your current directory. When you try to write a "cycle" function for ALT+TAB you realize that "windows" like taskbar etc. are not excluded from the window list by default, so you have to fix this, too.

Sure, many things are rather simple to fix (e.g. to display window size and position you have to undo the HideGeometryWindow), but you have to be rather familiar with fvwm to fix such stuff. All in all, it is perhaps simpler to write your own fvwm configuration than to get everything fixed...

Nevertheless, up to the above points fvwm-crystel shows at least somewhat what is possible with fvwm, so I should perhaps not be so strict.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mv wrote:
...
Nevertheless, up to the above points fvwm-crystel shows at least somewhat what is possible with fvwm, so I should perhaps not be so strict.


I think that's definitely true for new users. I never saw FVWM (and Crystal). I was glad to get it up and running fast, and start using it. I'm more willing to invest some time learning FVWM now, to discover it more.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be a bit more constructive, I attach some code which IMHO makes fvwm-crystal more usable and fixes some bugs.
Concerning the former, generate the file /etc/X11/fvwm/fvwm-crystal/userconfig (creating parent directories) with the following content:
Code:
# Some changes of fvwm-crystal behaviour

# Undo the strange fvwm-crystal decision to remove information during moving/resizing of windows:
HideGeometryWindow Never

# Undo the strange fvwm-crystal decision to override Terminal's geometry:
# This caused problems by placing windows according to original size and then resizing;
# this could produce windows which are only partially visible.
# If you want to give a default terminal size, set it in xresources correspondingly.
# For instance, put into ~/.Xresources (or ~/.Xdefaults)
# XTerm.VT100.Geometry: 80x25
# to set the xterm size default to 80 characters and 25 lines.
DestroyFunc FuncResizeTerm
AddToFunc FuncResizeTerm

# Remove Fvwm-internal windows from Cirulation list
Style Fvwm* CirculateSkip

# After the above fix, we can use Alt-Tab resp Shift-Alt-Tab to circulate focus through open windows:
Key Tab A M Window-Ring-Next
Key Tab A SM Window-Ring-Previous

Edit: Also make sure to set the Handle width to 2 (instead of the default 1) Pixel since otherwise redraw of windows is horribly slow for unknown reasons. (Setting handle width can be done in the preferences menu; to make this setting systemwide active, copy the generated file ~/.fvwm-crystal/preferences/HandeWidth to /etc/X11/fvwm/fvwm-crytstal/Preferences/HandleWidth (generating parent directories if necessary).
Edit: Similarly, I recommend to disable "privileged terminals" (in the preferences menu) which sometimes makes the terminal keep the focus when actually it should loose it (e.g. if you start an editor with a terminal open, the editor will not get the focus).

The following fixes some of the most serious code bugs in fvwm-crystal:
Generate the file /etc/portage/env/x11-themes/fvwm-crystal (creating parent directories) with the subsequent content.
Then reemerge fvwm-crystal to actually apply the patches:
Code:
#! /bin/sh (this line is only for editors)

# Fix various bugs in the fvwm-crystal scripts:
# 1. They are full of bashisms, so use #!/bin/bash
# 2. Avoid some bashisms in fvwm code ([[ ]] == source)
# 3. Remove wrong "break" lines in fvwm-crystal
# 4. Fix some forgotten quoting

my_bugfixes() {
   find "${S}" -type d -name Applications -prune \
      -o -type f -exec /bin/sh -c 'Echo() {
   printf '\''%s\n'\'' "${*}"
}
for i
do if test -x "${i}"
then ! head -n1 -- "${i}" | grep '\''^#!/bin/sh'\'' >/dev/null || {
   if [ "${i##*/}" = fvwm-crystal ]
   then   Echo "Fixes various in ${i}"
      a='\''-e /break;/d'\''
   else   Echo "Fixing #!/bin/sh in ${i}"
      a=
   fi
   cp -p -- "${i}" "${i}.patched" && \
   sed -e '\''1s|^#!/bin/sh|#!/bin/bash|'\'' $a -- "${i}" >|"${i}.patched" && \
   mv -- "${i}.patched" "${i}"
}
else
if grep -q '\''PipeRead.*\(\[\[\|source\)'\'' -- "${i}" >/dev/null
then   Echo "Fixing bashisms in ${i}"
   sed -i \
      -e '\''s/\[\[/\[/g'\'' \
      -e '\''s/\]\]/\]/g'\'' \
      -e '\''s/==/=/g'\'' \
      -e '\''s/source /. /g'\'' \
      -- "${i}"
fi && if grep -q '\''echo \*'\'' -- "${i}" >/dev/null
then   Echo "Fixing echo in ${i}"
   sed -i -e '\''s/echo \*/echo \\*/g'\'' -- "${i}"
fi
fi && continue
Echo "Failed to patch ${i}" >&2
exit 1
done' sh '{}' '+'
}

# Fix menu: flock is not a web browser...

my_menu() {
   local fvwm apps i
   einfo "Modifying menu entries"
   fvwm=${S}'/fvwm/'
   apps=${fvwm}'Applications/'
   rm -v -- "${apps}Network/"*Web_Browsers/*flock* || return
# You can add further local menu patches here...
}

post_src_prepare() {
   local f
   f=${PORTAGE_CONFIGROOT%/}/etc/portage/env/${CATEGORY}/${PN}
   einfo "mv's hack: ${f}"
   if my_bugfixes && my_menu
   then   einfo "mv's hack ${f} applied"
   else   die "mv's hack ${f} failed"
   fi
}

Edit: Described how to fix the slowdown (and some more verbose explanations and hints).
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In fvwm-crystal-3.2.7 (not yet in the tree) some of the bugs are fixed.
When you download the ebuild from the mv overay, it will also fix the bugs mentioned in the previous posting (and some more :wink: ).
A patch is sent to upstream (though there is no reply yet). Hopefully, all the bugs will be fixed in fvwm-crystal-3.2.8...
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mv wrote:
In fvwm-crystal-3.2.7 (not yet in the tree) some of the bugs are fixed.
When you download the ebuild from the mv overay, it will also fix the bugs mentioned in the previous posting (and some more :wink: ).
...


Didn't know there was a newer version out there. I'll give your ebuild a try. Thanks!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mv wrote:
In fvwm-crystal-3.2.7 (not yet in the tree) some of the bugs are fixed.
When you download the ebuild from the mv overay, it will also fix the bugs mentioned in the previous posting (and some more :wink: ).
A patch is sent to upstream (though there is no reply yet). Hopefully, all the bugs will be fixed in fvwm-crystal-3.2.8...


Sorry for the delay. I am upstream and I see you mail coming, but my tower get fully broken at the exact same time. The result is your message and your patch is not on my backup, was not on my ISP sever any more, and get lost. Can you please send it to me a second time.

And thank you for your fixes and constructive remarks, I appreciate. For the bashisms, I was not aware of these differences between sh and bash until I give a try with Debian, which use dash as default shell.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 more remarks:

It is a live fvwm-crystal ebuild into the pro-audio overlay. When using it, it download the software directly from the svn repository, and as the ebuild use no keyword, you must use "**" in /etc/portage/package.keywords:

Code:
x11-themes/fvwm-crystal **


FVWM is not that hard, but it is a huge and complex piece of software. Without FVWM-Crystal, I would never have learned FVWM. After a few years using it and contributing to it, I just begin to understand the big picture of FVWM, and it is still some aspects where I am just a beginner.

Also, I know I added some bugs like the bashisms, but I also removed other bugs related to the styles and many other. It is one year or so, I begun to standardize the behaviour of some functions inclusive the desktop geometry. Before, the geometry was changing with the recipes, with the result of windows being lost in the wild. Now, it is possible to change the geometry from the preferences, all recipes are using the same geometry and the windows are not lost in the wild any more. I can try to change the geometry from a horizontal line to a vertical line, this must be an almost trivial change. To further change it to be able to change both the number of rows and columns without loosing applications on the wild is doable, but not as trivial. It is on my TODO list, but not urgent.

All the fixes I done made possible to change the preferences to not use a restart, and often one fix or new function bring to another fix. It was a few days ago, I was working on a random wallpaper loop function, and ended up fixing an annoying bug with the focus policies, as well than another one with the update of the InfoLine (Amiga and SilentHacker recipes). That new function did an excellent test case for these 2 bugs, especially the first one.

Harnir, my predecessor, done a very good work with the file structure of Crystal and its overall look and feel. This made possible for a FVWM beginner to focus on one thing at a time, which is a must for me. With time, I begun to understand FVWM much more in details and in deep, and I also learned about scripting, function calls, what is best done into fvwm or with helper scripts, and so on. Harnir did also a very good work with a huge amount of custom functions, even if some of them was not finished, and if the styles was some kind of a mess. Anyway, the result was a very usable and funny desktop, and that's what's most important for an user. The returns I get recently from some users is that it is even more easy to use than before and more powerful. I did get only 1 angry complain, but 2 messages later she was grateful because her problem was solved. 8)
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dominique_71 wrote:
Can you please send it to me a second time.

Done.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll have to look at it, I had used fvwm years ago. I liked it then.

Thanks
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mv wrote:
Dominique_71 wrote:
Can you please send it to me a second time.

Done.


Thank you!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mv, your fixes are into the svn. Thank you.

mv wrote:
To be a bit more constructive, I attach some code which IMHO makes fvwm-crystal more usable and fixes some bugs.
Concerning the former, generate the file /etc/X11/fvwm/fvwm-crystal/userconfig (creating parent directories) with the following content:
Code:
# Some changes of fvwm-crystal behaviour

# Undo the strange fvwm-crystal decision to remove information during moving/resizing of windows:
HideGeometryWindow Never

# Undo the strange fvwm-crystal decision to override Terminal's geometry:
# This caused problems by placing windows according to original size and then resizing;
# this could produce windows which are only partially visible.
# If you want to give a default terminal size, set it in xresources correspondingly.
# For instance, put into ~/.Xresources (or ~/.Xdefaults)
# XTerm.VT100.Geometry: 80x25
# to set the xterm size default to 80 characters and 25 lines.
DestroyFunc FuncResizeTerm
AddToFunc FuncResizeTerm

# Remove Fvwm-internal windows from Cirulation list
Style Fvwm* CirculateSkip

# After the above fix, we can use Alt-Tab resp Shift-Alt-Tab to circulate focus through open windows:
Key Tab A M Window-Ring-Next
Key Tab A SM Window-Ring-Previous



All these are user preferences. They can put them into /etc/X11/fvwm/fvwm-crystal/userconfig or ~/.fvwm-crystal/userconfig, and all I will do is to add them into the documentation.

In FVWM-Crystal, Alt+Tab and Alt+Shift+Tab acts like in windows, the current window is placed at the end of the popup menu, previous window is first. Alt+Tab is for visible windows, and Alt+Shift+Tab is for the iconified windows. But sure, users can not like it.

It is just the FuncResizeTerm I will think about. It is an heritage, and I don't know either why harnir have done this. Maybe a mistake. To remove it will remove a FvwmEvent.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About Style Fvwm* CirculateSkip, what is the problem with it?
I ask that because if I open a FvwmConsole with Alt+F and run that command into it, FVWM-Crystal get very confused as you can see by hitting Alt+F again. EDIT: Or even Alt+Fn.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dominique_71 wrote:
I ask that because if I open a FvwmConsole

I never used FvwmConsole; maybe this should be excluded (which unfortunately is not so easy with one WildcardString).
My reason for the exclusions list was: I got very confused pressing tab to get to the "next" window but seeing nothing happening because the "next" window is some fvwm-menu/taskbar/whatever which is already visible anyway. Maybe this is related with my workflow: I often have only two (or at most three) windows open between which I have to switch often (e.g. to read information in a browser corresponding to a text I am writing), so I expect only one keypress for the switch and do not want to count "dummy" keypresses or to concentrate which window is open.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The windows list functions are in components/functions/Window-List. It is 3 of them: Window-List, Window-List-Page and Window-List-Icons. Window-List-Page is assigned to Alt+Tab, and Window-List-Icons to Alt+Shift+Tab.

You can also switch between the 2 last focused windows with Alt+Esc.

Into the svn, it is a key modifiers editor preference dialogue. It will be part of the next release with your fixes. It is useful with applications like Emacs and Ardour that make an extensive use of the Alt key.

It is also a workaround for the Load media file menu which trigger a fvwm bug with spaces and things like () or {} into the directory names. I finally found that, by removing all the icons and the exec-title command from the fvwm-menu-directory call, fvwm work fine. In consequence, I added another preference for the icons in that menu.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fvwm-crystal-3.3.0 was released that night. The changes from the 3.2.7 versions are here.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dominique_71 wrote:
fvwm-crystal-3.3.0 was released that night

Great! Thanks a lot!
Ebuild is available from the mv overlay (but one can also just rename the ebuild from the tree).
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When reviewing portage ebuilds, I found a missing depend on x11-misc/xdg-user-dirs. I think it must be fixed shortly, see Bug 499644.

It's important because if it is not installed, the FVWM-Crystal desktop icon manager will fail. I think you will get the HOME and the mounted partitions icons, but the xdg icons will fail. The live ebuild into the pro-audio overlay is already fixed.

I noticed a funny behaviour of that desktop icons manager when you change the locale, inclusive the language. It still use the directories created with the old language. If you want to create and use directories with the new language, you have to delete ~/.config/xdg-dirs.dirs and restart Crystal.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dominique_71 wrote:
When reviewing portage ebuilds, I found a missing depend on x11-misc/xdg-user-dirs.

I never had installed xdg-user-dirs and do not have the impression that I am missing something in fvwm-crystal - maybe some features I do not know or care about do not work, but I can even minimize windows to get icons. Maybe you are speaking about other icons on the empty desktop? I did not know that there should be any, and I am happy that there are none.
At least on gentoo xdg-user-dirs depends on gtk:3 which is a severe dependency many users (including me) want to avoid in any case - one of the reasons I prefer fvwm over gnome.
So this looks to me like a perfect candidate for an optional dependency. There is no need to introduce a USE-flag, since as I understand changing this flag does not need reinstallation. In the lack of another optional dependency feature (which will perhaps come in some EAPI) the current policy of gentoo in such a case is to use a message in pkg_postinst(), informing the user (in this case) that he has to install xdg-user-dirs if he wants support for icons. I will fix the ebuild in the mv overlay to print this message.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the feedback. What you can see when xdg-user-dirs is installed is something like that: dekstop manager.

From the up-left corner, the first icon is $HOME, the following are the localized xdg-user-dirs, and the last icons are the mounted partitions.

Also, the depends of xdg-user-dirs are as follow:
Quote:
DEPEND="dev-libs/libxslt
sys-devel/gettext"
PDEPEND="gtk? ( x11-misc/xdg-user-dirs-gtk )"

and FVWM-Crystal only use xdg-user-dirs, and not xdg-user-dirs-gtk. That imply you can merge it with USE="-gtk".

Anyway, if it work fine without xdg-user-dirs, I will add it as an optional depend in both the overlay and in portage ebuilds. But it will be an USE flag, that's portage policy for conditional depends.

And reinstalling FVWM-Crystal will not touch your personal files into ~/.fvwm-crystal, so nothing will change. I reinstall it myself each time I make a change into the svn, which can be several times a day sometime.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dominique,

I've made a full translation of FVWM-Crystal into Dutch (nl locale), based on the .pot files included in v3.3.0. I'm quite happy with the result so far. I'm using it in ~/.fvwm-crystal/locale now, but I'm still busy checking the translations in the context of the user interface. I think it would be nice to have it included in the package when it's ready. Maybe a Crystal user from Belgium likes to review it.
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mv
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the hint with USE=-gtk; somehow I overlooked this :oops:
Of course, xdg-user-dirs alone is not a strong dependency, and I think one can justify to add it unconditionally.
However, installing it (even after reemerging fvwm-crystal) did not change anything - no icons (also no $HOME). It seems desktop-manager is not starting here at all. Does it have to be started manually or is it visible only with a certain recipe? (Or perhaps I misconfigured something here, or another dependency is missing...)
Quote:
But it will be an USE flag, that's portage policy for conditional depends.

There is a strict policy that a USE-flag shall be used only if it modifies the installed data - which is not the case here.
Quote:
And reinstalling FVWM-Crystal will not touch your personal files into ~/.fvwm-crystal, so nothing will change.

Of course - an installation should never touch anything is user's home; it would be a big violation of Gentoo standards if it did.
However, the earlier mentioned policy is even independent of how long the reinstallation takes and what side effects it might have; only virtual packages are excluded from this policy for obvious reasons.
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Dominique_71
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lost+found wrote:
Dominique,

I've made a full translation of FVWM-Crystal into Dutch (nl locale), based on the .pot files included in v3.3.0. I'm quite happy with the result so far. I'm using it in ~/.fvwm-crystal/locale now, but I'm still busy checking the translations in the context of the user interface. I think it would be nice to have it included in the package when it's ready. Maybe a Crystal user from Belgium likes to review it.


That would be nice, thank you !
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