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Muso
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:00 am    Post subject: Thanks, NSA, you're killing the cloud Reply with quote

The current NSA scandal raises a ton of questions -- and gives enterprises another excuse to resist the cloud

Quote:
Last week, news broke that the NSA has been spying on Verizon customer in the United States. The bulletin came via the Guardian, which had obtained a copy of a secret court order allowing the NSA to spy on millions of Verizon customers. As reported by Glenn Greenwald: "The document shows for the first time that under the Obama administration the communication records of millions of U.S. citizens are being collected indiscriminately and in bulk -- regardless of whether they are suspected of any wrongdoing."

This development has multiple implications for U.S. citizens, but high-tech industries will feel a distinctive hit. It seems that we only recently addressed fears over the Patriot Act and the notion that the U.S. government could seize the servers containing your data from your cloud provider. It was certainly possible, but not likely.

[ Get the no-nonsense explanations and advice you need to take real advantage of cloud computing in InfoWorld editors' 21-page Cloud Computing Deep Dive PDF special report. | Stay up on the cloud with InfoWorld's Cloud Computing Report newsletter. ]

Now, we have a documented instance where the government has been peeking at personal communication records with the objective of spotting the bad guys. A few million Verizon customers must be feeling a bit confused if not downright violated at this point.

As we migrate to public clouds, the most vocal protestors against this shift also happen to believe the data is at more risk for government monitoring. While you can show them mechanisms and statistics that demonstrate the value of leveraging public clouds, the "NSA scandal" will provide more fuel for the already cloud-paranoid.

The rise of cloud computing in the European Union will see the greatest impact on this scandal. The group is already suspicious of the U.S. government's power to either monitor or outright seize their data. While there may not be any direct logical connection behind the perceived risk, the truth is people often make decisions, such as moving to the public cloud, based on feelings as much as facts.

Personally, I don't see much of a connection between the NSA and cloud computing, but those on the fence regarding cloud computing will cite this as another reason to kick the can further down the road. Thanks for nothing, NSA.


Good. The "cloud" is a stupid concept.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heh heh

Fools!

The cloud, the Internet were all designed exactly for this. To let bigbrother know what we're doing.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
Heh heh. Fools!

:lol:
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AWESOME. The providers can't seem to guarantee data security, so the cloud should be avoided until that changes.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:32 am    Post subject: Re: Thanks, NSA, you're killing the cloud Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
The "cloud" is a stupid concept.


Truer words cannot be spoken.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:13 am    Post subject: Re: Thanks, NSA, you're killing the cloud Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
The "cloud" is a stupid concept.
Which part, the marketing to sell it to management, or the actual technology which has a use?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:28 am    Post subject: Re: Thanks, NSA, you're killing the cloud Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Muso wrote:
The "cloud" is a stupid concept.
Which part, the marketing to sell it to management, or the actual technology which has a use?


They're both stupid to different degrees.

The marketing part is, by far, the most stupid and void of meaning ("we're moving to the cloud!" wtf?).

The technology, depending on what is meant by "the cloud", varies. My rule of thumb is: while (privacy-- && control--) stupid++.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, no... it makes perfect sense because there has always been a cloud shape in network diagram software for representing "all that other shit that's out there that we're not concerned with". Move it to the cloud, and you don't have to worry about it any more, because it's not even on your drawing.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
No, no... it makes perfect sense because there has always been a cloud shape in network diagram software for representing "all that other shit that's out there that we're not concerned with". Move it to the cloud, and you don't have to worry about it any more, because it's not even on your drawing.


:lol:

Basically, a fart... A lot of noise, stinks and, really, doesn't matter.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:54 am    Post subject: Re: Thanks, NSA, you're killing the cloud Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Muso wrote:
The "cloud" is a stupid concept.
Which part, the marketing to sell it to management, or the actual technology which has a use?


The idea that we (the people) should be uploading all of our data to government snoops for "convenience" is a stupid concept.

Alles Klar?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Subjugation As a Service
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Subjugation As a Service


Exactly.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have this silly idea that I should try to build this particular service, dating back to the dotcom era of WAP and dumbphones, and it always included renting linux servers somewhere for backend. Lately I was thinking that maybe I should go ahead and do it with cloud and android/iphone apps, but this whole shit about NSA is quite disguisting.
Like what's the point of writing the Privacy Policy for the service when you can be 100% sure that it's not waterproof. And it got me thinking, the only reason that one would consider it waterproof in the "rent a linux server" mode of thinking is that one would sign a contract with the hosting company, and both sides would be obliged to honor it. Now it seems rather pointless, so I guess that someone has to sue someone.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking just for myself (I would have said apparently paranoid self, but the government proved me right again), I never trust actual personal data to the "cloud". I'll use external hard drives, DVDs, flash drives etc etc etc, but never an online service for this.

I'm, obviously, 0.001% of the computing public. I do, however, feel that my precautions will become more and more common.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Speaking just for myself (I would have said apparently paranoid self, but the government proved me right again), I never trust actual personal data to the "cloud". I'll use external hard drives, DVDs, flash drives etc etc etc, but never an online service for this.

I'm, obviously, 0.001% of the computing public. I do, however, feel that my precautions will become more and more common.


I feel much the same way. I need to invest in an external hard drive sometime, or at least an enclosure. I'm even hesitant to put much on the webhosting that I pay for. But at least in that case I have a few legal options should my data get seized.

The "cloud" is a stupid concept, I agree. It doesn't represent anything that hasn't existed for years already, and the mix of technologies isn't anything special. We've had load-balancing software for years, and "cloud computing" is really just regearing load-balancing to include not only CPU time, but hard drive storage and bandwidth. Ooh, big deal. But call it "the cloud" and suddenly it's brand new. Disgusting.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Thanks, NSA, you're killing the cloud Reply with quote

GabrielYYZ wrote:
The technology, depending on what is meant by "the cloud", varies. My rule of thumb is: while (privacy-- && control--) stupid++.
Well, a cloud isn't that vague a concept. A server in a mop closet isn't a private cloud. It's a server in a mop closet.

Muso wrote:
The idea that we (the people) should be uploading all of our data to government snoops for "convenience" is a stupid concept.

Alles Klar?
The government putting their nose where it doesn't belong is a different issue than the value of the technology. A gun can be used for evil, that doesn't make it a bad technology.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Thanks, NSA, you're killing the cloud Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
The government putting their nose where it doesn't belong is a different issue than the value of the technology. A gun can be used for evil, that doesn't make it a bad technology.


Aye, but I see no reason to keep all of my data on the "cloud". Most is just fine on my local storage devices.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure. But, for example, watching something on a mobile device, then switching it to a larger screen TV. Keeping track of contact lists, bookmarks, etc., could be easily done (and without an inherent lack of security). I'm not saying everything should be in the cloud, but with the ever present mobile connectivity, many things will naturally migrate because it can be used and/or managed more effectively.

That said, I could easily see it becoming less data-center centralized, or at least branching out into a p2p arrangement. Your data available, but if chosen, only visible to you.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Thanks, NSA, you're killing the cloud Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
GabrielYYZ wrote:
The technology, depending on what is meant by "the cloud", varies. My rule of thumb is: while (privacy-- && control--) stupid++.
Well, a cloud isn't that vague a concept. A server in a mop closet isn't a private cloud. It's a server in a mop closet.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_computing

It is a vague concept these days, and then you have services like dropbox or ubuntu one that "leverage the cloud". There's an entire Operating System that "operates in the cloud" (Chrom[e|ium] OS), etc. This is the marketing part but it's also the more dangerous side, IMHO, since it tries to convince people that having their data on someone else's hardware is marvelous.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In science, cloud computing is a synonym for distributed computing over a network and means the ability to run a program on many connected computers at the same time. The popularity of the term can be attributed to its use in marketing to sell hosted services in the sense of application service provisioning that run client server software on a remote location.
Distributed computing, application service provisioning and the like doesn't seem the slightest bit vague to me.

How does Chrome OS "operate in the cloud"? My guess is that isn't accurate. Using cloud based applications is not the OS operating in the cloud, and I seriously doubt Chromebooks (that's what they're called, isn't it?) boot from the network.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Quote:
In science, cloud computing is a synonym for distributed computing over a network and means the ability to run a program on many connected computers at the same time. The popularity of the term can be attributed to its use in marketing to sell hosted services in the sense of application service provisioning that run client server software on a remote location.
Distributed computing, application service provisioning and the like doesn't seem the slightest bit vague to me.

How does Chrome OS "operate in the cloud"? My guess is that isn't accurate. Using cloud based applications is not the OS operating in the cloud, and I seriously doubt Chromebooks (that's what they're called, isn't it?) boot from the network.


The many definitions on that wikipedia page, plus the capacity for it to be marketing'd make it a vague concept for me. Just to be clear, though, i mean it's a vague concept intended for the end-idiot, the ones that eat up the bullshit marketing and buy into the "oooh it's shiny" fad.

Wikipedia/Chrome OS wrote:
Google announced Chrome OS on July 7, 2009,[9] describing it as an operating system in which both applications and user data reside in the cloud. The concept was new enough to confuse users and analysts, as well as Google co-founder Sergey Brin, who didn't at first realize his data did not reside on his personal computer, but could be accessed from any machine running the operating system.[19]


It's been a part of their marketing for it since the beginning. As far as "is it accurate?", depends on how you interpret "operates in the cloud".
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GabrielYYZ wrote:
As far as "is it accurate?", depends on how you interpret "operates in the cloud".
That's why I asked "how".
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought that was a rhetorical question :oops:

I should clarify that i meant you as in "people", not you specifically. Since the apps and the data are "in the cloud", people might accept that the OS "operates in the cloud".
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And for most people, apps vs. OS isn't worthy of differentiation. The apps are in the cloud, the data is in the cloud, etc. So in that example, it isn't really vague, just a semantic argument that apps aren't the OS.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess we might be thinking of different definitions for "vague"...

online dictionary wrote:
vague (vg)
adj. vagu·er, vagu·est
1. Not clearly expressed; inexplicit.
2. Not thinking or expressing oneself clearly.
3. Lacking definite shape, form, or character; indistinct: saw a vague outline of a building through the fog.
4. Not clear in meaning or application. See Synonyms at ambiguous.
5. Indistinctly felt, perceived, understood, or recalled; hazy: a vague uneasiness.


The bold ones are the ones i'm thinking of and i think "the cloud" fits those definitions perfectly. Also: http://www.salesforce.com/uk/socialsuccess/cloud-computing/why-move-to-cloud-10-benefits-cloud-computing.jsp.
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