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Man dead in suspected Woolwich terror attack
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Naib
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iixaka wrote:
Allahu Akbar - the sole difference between terrorism and murder, apparantly.

The sole difference is 10 people have been arrested surrounding this one murder, arrested on suspicion of conspiracy to murder. Nothing connecting these people and the victim ruling out some form of vendetta, targeted hit etc...
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:

It depends a lot more on how many they want dead than anything else. Let's expand upon your logic, shall we? We have two guys with:
a. Meat cleavers, butcher's knives, and a pistol
b. Two rifles
c. Two home-made bombs
d. Two automobiles

Which scenario results in more dead people?

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

And :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


of course it depends on how many they want dead. But if they number is "more than one" a meat cleaver isn't going to do it.

I am happy banning all things in that list whose main purpose is to kill.

That's just an extension of the same irrational thinking. Trying to solve violence by purportedly taking away the means to effect it is nothing but a con game. The 9/11 hijackings were carried out using nothing but small knives, and they killed 3,000 people. The Oklahoma city bombing was carried using explosives components that are still readily available in bulk to anybody, and it killed 168 and injured 680 more. Every car on the road is a mass murder being kept from happening by its driver. Every household contains dozens of toxic substances which, alone or in combination, can kill hundreds of people before anybody could stop it.

It's impossible to stop violence by taking away the means. Impossible. The difference between rates of violence and homicide from country to country have nothing to do with the availability of the means to commit violence; this has been statistically proven by the very people trying to prove otherwise. Firearms are not the most deadly, or the most readily available means to commit violence. Rates of individual acts of violence and homicide, and preferences for firearms as a tool, have far more to do with cultural and media glorification of the gun. One need only watch a single night of American TV, listen to one American rap music album, or play one American video game to see it (and we're not alone in that respect).

Anybody who really wants to take a life, or two lives, or ten lives, or a hundred lives, can more easily find other means to do so than to get a gun and use it to carry out the act. One flick of the wrist while while driving down the road will claim whatever number of lives you choose, and you're already in your get-away vehicle, if you don't happen to be the type inclined to suicide. Plow into a fuel truck and maybe a get a couple hundred. Put a couple home-made bombs on a couple of gas lines where they cross major bridges, and maybe you get a couple thousand. Or be creative: weld a couple of steel wedges onto the train rails just uphill of a curve. Dump a carton of rat poison in the gravy mix at the school cafeteria. Set fire to a hillside during a drought. Burn down a building. Do it British style and tie somebody to a tree, douse them in 'petrol', and set fire to them. There are innumerable means to wreak lethal violence and mayhem, and denying one of them (or more accurately, making a feeble gesture at pretending to deny one of them) is not going to prevent anybody from doing what they want to do.
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Bigun
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:

It depends a lot more on how many they want dead than anything else. Let's expand upon your logic, shall we? We have two guys with:
a. Meat cleavers, butcher's knives, and a pistol
b. Two rifles
c. Two home-made bombs
d. Two automobiles

Which scenario results in more dead people?

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

And :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


of course it depends on how many they want dead. But if they number is "more than one" a meat cleaver isn't going to do it.

I am happy banning all things in that list whose main purpose is to kill.


- Most meat cleavers are used on meat
- Most knives are used for food preparation
- Most pistols are used in target practice
- Most rifles are used in target practice
- Most homemade bombs are used to kill people (already banned, hard to prevent making them)
- Most cars are used for transportation

*EDIT*

Actually, even the homemade bombs, I would think are made by 12 year olds to see a "boom" of some sort.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Purpose is irrelevant. What's the main purpose of nuclear fission? What's the main purpose of your fist? What's the purpose of life? Intent is all that matters, because that's what give things meaning.

Furthermore, killing can be necessary and good. People have a right to defend themselves and each other, and to use force to prevent harm and protect their rights and property, and to right wrongs. If you think you're the Dalai Lama, then move to Tibet. Oh, wait... he can't, because there are men with guns who killed his people, took over, and won't let him, and he can't do fuck about it.
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Bigun
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Purpose is irrelevant. What's the main purpose of nuclear fission? What's the main purpose of your fist? What's the purpose of life? Intent is all that matters, because that's what give things meaning.

Furthermore, killing can be necessary and good. People have a right to defend themselves and each other, and to use force to prevent harm and protect their rights and property, and to right wrongs. If you think you're the Dalai Lama, then move to Tibet. Oh, wait... he can't, because there are men with guns who killed his people, took over, and won't let him, and he can't do fuck about it.


I don't disagree with you BK, it seems juniper was stuck on it, so I filled in the blanks for him.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was compassionate of you.
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