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Naib
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
flysideways wrote:
juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Also, good thing he didn't have a gun, somebody might have been killed.


likely, more than one person would have been killed.


You may need to reconcile that with the reports. Butchering someone with kitchen implements is a much more personal and committed statement. Daniel Pearl was not shot for a reason.


Knives are less lethal than guns. Accept it.
no they are not. A stab to the heart will kill someone just as much as a bullet to the heart.
Its not as practical/easy to go on a manic killing spee with a knife but you still die from knife wounds.
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flysideways
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
flysideways wrote:
juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Also, good thing he didn't have a gun, somebody might have been killed.


likely, more than one person would have been killed.


You may need to reconcile that with the reports. Butchering someone with kitchen implements is a much more personal and committed statement. Daniel Pearl was not shot for a reason.


Knives are less lethal than guns. Accept it.

I will accept that an 80 year old woman can effect the same results with her .38 as some young buck can with his kitchen knife.

Actually, I was referring to the reports that all say that one of the alleged assailants was brandishing a revolver.
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flysideways
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These guys must not have the right to petition the Government for a redress of their grievances.[/humor]
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pjp
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
Quote:
"And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."
So, if you're being attacked, are you just supposed to say "No! Stop!" or should you retaliate to defend yourself, if you're able?
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Also, good thing he didn't have a gun, somebody might have been killed.


likely, more than one person would have been killed.

You don't think two guys with meat cleavers and butcher's knives can't kill more than one person if they have the intent? :roll:

Oh, and by the way, they did have a gun; they simply chose not to use it. Why would anybody need to use a gun in a society full of disarmed people and disarmed cops?
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Naib wrote:
Quote:
"And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."
So, if you're being attacked, are you just supposed to say "No! Stop!" or should you retaliate to defend yourself, if you're able?

You're supposed to turn the other cheek. Oh, wait... wrong branch of Abrahamism. You're supposed to turn the other child, into a suicide bomber.
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't see any reference to suicide bombers in Naib's quote.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure any good Jihadist could quote one to you chapter and verse.
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And every Christian is an abortion clinic bomber.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Jihadist is not analogous to the Christian; the Jihadist is analogous to the abortion clinic bomber. The Christian is analogous to the Muslim.
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for clarifying. Too many seem to not make that distinction.
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juniper
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Also, good thing he didn't have a gun, somebody might have been killed.


likely, more than one person would have been killed.

You don't think two guys with meat cleavers and butcher's knives can't kill more than one person if they have the intent? :roll:

Oh, and by the way, they did have a gun; they simply chose not to use it. Why would anybody need to use a gun in a society full of disarmed people and disarmed cops?
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Let's control. You have two guys with some amount of intent. In one case they have guns and in the other case they have meat cleavers. What scenario has more dead? :roll: :roll: :roll:

stop kidding yourself.
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Bigun
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Also, good thing he didn't have a gun, somebody might have been killed.


likely, more than one person would have been killed.

You don't think two guys with meat cleavers and butcher's knives can't kill more than one person if they have the intent? :roll:

Oh, and by the way, they did have a gun; they simply chose not to use it. Why would anybody need to use a gun in a society full of disarmed people and disarmed cops?
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Let's control. You have two guys with some amount of intent. In one case they have guns and in the other case they have meat cleavers. What scenario has more dead? :roll: :roll: :roll:

stop kidding yourself.


Knives, they aren't limited by ammo.
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sikpuppy
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bigun wrote:
Knives, they aren't limited by ammo.

Limited by the end of your arm, throwing them works once only.
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juniper
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
juniper wrote:
flysideways wrote:
juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Also, good thing he didn't have a gun, somebody might have been killed.


likely, more than one person would have been killed.


You may need to reconcile that with the reports. Butchering someone with kitchen implements is a much more personal and committed statement. Daniel Pearl was not shot for a reason.


Knives are less lethal than guns. Accept it.
no they are not. A stab to the heart will kill someone just as much as a bullet to the heart.
Its not as practical/easy to go on a manic killing spee with a knife but you still die from knife wounds.


Right. I never said they can't kill.

Why is it so hard to accept? All things being equal, knives will cause less fatalities. This is why gangsters and the army don't use knives if they can use guns.
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Well, every group has its nutjobs, and the Second Amendment crowd is no exception.
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Why is it so hard to accept? All things being equal, knives will cause less fatalities. This is why gangsters and the army don't use knives if they can use guns.


Also, in this case, they used a car - just to even the odds up.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sikpuppy wrote:
Bigun wrote:
Knives, they aren't limited by ammo.

Limited by the end of your arm, throwing them works once only.
Throwing a bullet works only once as well. In fact, you can retrieve the knife and repeat the process.

Which brings us to the metallic ammo problem. We just need to produce ceramic "knives" and a fully automatic knife thrower. And DHS has already conceded they've lost the battle on 3D printing of weapons.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Also, good thing he didn't have a gun, somebody might have been killed.


likely, more than one person would have been killed.

You don't think two guys with meat cleavers and butcher's knives can't kill more than one person if they have the intent? :roll:

Oh, and by the way, they did have a gun; they simply chose not to use it. Why would anybody need to use a gun in a society full of disarmed people and disarmed cops?
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Let's control. You have two guys with some amount of intent. In one case they have guns and in the other case they have meat cleavers. What scenario has more dead? :roll: :roll: :roll:

stop kidding yourself.

It depends a lot more on how many they want dead than anything else. Let's expand upon your logic, shall we? We have two guys with:
a. Meat cleavers, butcher's knives, and a pistol
b. Two rifles
c. Two home-made bombs
d. Two automobiles

Which scenario results in more dead people?

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

And :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Last edited by Bones McCracker on Mon May 27, 2013 4:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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pjp
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
It depends a lot more on how many they want dead than anything else. Let's expand upon your logic, shall we? We have two guys with:
a. Meat cleavers, butcher's knives, and a pistol
b. Two rifles
c. Two home-made bombs
d. Two automobiles

Which scenario results in more dead people?
That's kind of like a new Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock.

Pistol over knives, rifle over pistol, car over rifle, bomb over car, knife diffuses bomb.
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sikpuppy
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
We have two guys with:
a. Meat cleavers, butcher's knives, and a pistol
b. Two rifles
c. Two home-made bombs
d. Two automobiles

Which scenario results in more dead people?

a) Because they have the most concealable weapons.
b) Because they would be pin point accurate snipers
c) Because they would be dirty bombs
d) Because they would be used to move the dirty bombs.

:) x 1,000,000.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You get the general idea, but the cars are for plowing into crowds of people at high rates of speed, spending dozens of bodies spectacularly flying through the air, into storefront windows, into other cars, landing in the laps of little old ladies, etc.

The availability of any particular weapon is no factor in determining how many will die. That determination is made entirely within the mind of the perpetrator. There are many easy ways to kill large numbers of people.
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marens
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/terror-in-woolwich-mi5-tried-to-recruit-suspect-in-kenyan-jail-8633024.html
Quote:


Terror in Woolwich: MI5 ‘tried to recruit suspect in Kenyan jail’

...

Adebolajo, who was held in custody for several days in the port city of Mombasa and complained of mistreatment, was eventually released without charge by the Kenyan authorities.

The Foreign Office confirmed that Adebolajo received "consular assistance" after he was held "as is normal for British nationals detained". But the episode is likely to raise questions as to why he was not more closely monitored on his return to the UK.

Whitehall sources said British-born Adebolajo, who remains under armed guard in hospital following his arrest for the murder of the soldier Lee Rigby, also made a second attempt to travel to Somalia last year but was stopped by MI5 and warned he would be detained once more by the Kenyans.

The further claims that Adebolajo was the subject of sustained interest from the Security Service for more than two years came as armed police arrested a 22-year-old man in north London on suspicion of conspiracy to murder in connection with Drummer Rigby's killing. Three other men who were arrested on the same charge in the Greenwich area of south-east London in raids on Saturday evening also remained in custody.

The allegation Adebolajo was approached by the Security Service while in Kenya follows claims from his brother-in-law he faced demands from MI5 upon his return to Britain to infiltrate Islamist groups and this pressure may have "pushed him over the edge".

...

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sikpuppy
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, it's MI5s fault he is an extremist. What a load of old bollocks.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A ruthless, bloodthirsty, radical extremist from Kenya? I wonder if he's related to Obama.
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juniper
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:

It depends a lot more on how many they want dead than anything else. Let's expand upon your logic, shall we? We have two guys with:
a. Meat cleavers, butcher's knives, and a pistol
b. Two rifles
c. Two home-made bombs
d. Two automobiles

Which scenario results in more dead people?

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

And :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


of course it depends on how many they want dead. But if they number is "more than one" a meat cleaver isn't going to do it.

I am happy banning all things in that list whose main purpose is to kill.
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