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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dupe
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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is only a dupe since news items like this keep on appearing. If the Republican'ts would stop thinking about who is paying them instead of who votes for them maybe we would have saner gun control laws

but the Republican'ts can't think beyond their next payslip
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

:roll:
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What the hell does this have to do with Republicans and their payslips? What do you think the NRA is going to say about this?
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The primary thing the NRA does is teach people how to safely handle firearms and to hit what they're shooting at. That's their whole purpose, first and foremost, before any kind of lobbying, etc. They're some kind of corporate operation like the RIAA and MPAA, which Democrats are so friendly with; they are a grass roots community that happens to include a large portion of the population.

Also, anybody who believes the U.S. legislature is has thrown out the bills that have been submitted recently because of bribery is fooling themselves. The bills haven't been passed because they do not represent the will of the majority. Left-wing extremists are trying to create the illusion that the majority supported them by saying "most people are in favor of expanded background checks", but these bills were not simply "expanded background checks".

Gun control nuts need to pull their heads out of their echo chamber. Put something reasonable before Congress and they'll pass it (for example, something that goes out of its way not to violate people's rights).

Also, I will repeat what I said months ago: the Democrats aren't actually trying to get anything passed; they're trying NOT to get anything passed, so they can use it as a weapon in the mid-term elections. That's why these bills have all been unacceptable, and that's why the one thing you keep hearing from Obama is "this deserves a vote". That's all they care about: being able to say, "This person voted against background checks!", when that's not what they were voting against.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
dupe
Merged from juniper's post.
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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
Cause:

1. Utter lack of safety protocol (round left in chamber).
2. Weapon left unsecured when not in use.
3. Stupid parenting (lack of safety training for the children).

Effect:

1. Dead toddler.


Totally negligent parenting, if you ask me. I mean, AT LEAST, they should have given the two year old a gun. How else could she be expected to protect herself? That's the way I run my house. the four old has a few, but I give the two year old a few extra on account of the age, mental and physical deficits she faces in regards to her older sibling. Gun violence has to be stopped, doesn't it?

I feel sick making these jokes and am rather disgusted by all the darwin comments. But I am trying to point out the silliness of some of the responses given by the right to gun violence.
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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:

Gun control nuts need to pull their heads out of their echo chamber. Put something reasonable before Congress and they'll pass it (for example, something that goes out of its way not to violate people's rights).


what do you propose? I mean, background checks are out. not sure what is left.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Split off Zimmerman.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
what do you propose? I mean, background checks are out. not sure what is left.
Background checks already happen, so it depends on what you're looking to change. I'm not in favor making the mentally ill more ostracized, and a car thief felon isn't inherently a violent criminal, etc.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
But I am trying to point out the silliness of some of the responses given by the right to gun violence.

Which responses?
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juniper
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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
juniper wrote:
what do you propose? I mean, background checks are out. not sure what is left.
Background checks already happen, so it depends on what you're looking to change. I'm not in favor making the mentally ill more ostracized, and a car thief felon isn't inherently a violent criminal, etc.


the proposal is that any exchange requires a background check.
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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
juniper wrote:
But I am trying to point out the silliness of some of the responses given by the right to gun violence.

Which responses?


students/principals/teachers should have guns and other idiotic suggestions by the NRA.
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Old School
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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
juniper wrote:
But I am trying to point out the silliness of some of the responses given by the right to gun violence.

Which responses?


students/principals/teachers should have guns and other idiotic suggestions by the NRA.

The NRA said students should be armed?
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:

Gun control nuts need to pull their heads out of their echo chamber. Put something reasonable before Congress and they'll pass it (for example, something that goes out of its way not to violate people's rights).


what do you propose? I mean, background checks are out. not sure what is left.

Background checks are not out. How could background checks be out if most states are doing them already? Background checks can be expanded without granting the Federal Government new powers with unacceptable potential for authoritarian abuse. We don't need to have everybody's intimate personal background details in a big National Big Brother database in order to have background checks. With respect to motor vehicle licensing and vehicle registration, the States have been sharing information with each other, without the involvement of the Federal Government, for decades. The same sort of thing can be done here.
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Last edited by Bones McCracker on Sun May 05, 2013 11:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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juniper
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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:

Gun control nuts need to pull their heads out of their echo chamber. Put something reasonable before Congress and they'll pass it (for example, something that goes out of its way not to violate people's rights).


what do you propose? I mean, background checks are out. not sure what is left.

Background checks are not out. How could background checks be out if most states are doing them already? Stop being a propaganda victim.


increased to all gun exchanges.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See edit above.

Also, passing a law that requires background investigations for all gun exchanges is meaningless. It's absolutely meaningless, without a mechanism to make enforcement practical. We should probably be treating guns more like cars, with requirements (at state or county level) for registration, licensing, and periodic renewals thereof. It is the lack of a requirement for periodic renewals that makes any new requirement for transfers impractical to enforce. If there is no requirement for anybody to ever see a gun again once you buy it, then how would anybody ever know whether you transfered it without following the required process?

The key to getting anybody to accept such new requirements is to keep them entirely out of Federal hands, even expressly forbidding the Federal Government from directly tapping into any such systems as might be created to enable this or to make any copies of that information.
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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:

Gun control nuts need to pull their heads out of their echo chamber. Put something reasonable before Congress and they'll pass it (for example, something that goes out of its way not to violate people's rights).


what do you propose? I mean, background checks are out. not sure what is left.

Background checks are not out. How could background checks be out if most states are doing them already? Stop being a propaganda victim.


increased to all gun exchanges.
And how many of the big shooting sprees would that have stopped?
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juniper
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:

Gun control nuts need to pull their heads out of their echo chamber. Put something reasonable before Congress and they'll pass it (for example, something that goes out of its way not to violate people's rights).


what do you propose? I mean, background checks are out. not sure what is left.

Background checks are not out. How could background checks be out if most states are doing them already? Stop being a propaganda victim.


increased to all gun exchanges.
And how many of the big shooting sprees would that have stopped?


don't know. would it be worth it if the answer was one innocent person?

but can't you throw us a bone? What do you propose? anything that's not from the idiot book of arming everyone.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I threw you that bone above.
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
would it be worth it if the answer was one innocent person?


We are not talking ending birth control abortions, we are talking the bill of rights.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zing! (as juniper likes to say)
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
juniper wrote:
But I am trying to point out the silliness of some of the responses given by the right to gun violence.

Which responses?


students/principals/teachers should have guns and other idiotic suggestions by the NRA.

I believe that teachers should have the option of arming themselves if they can qualify for a CCW. This means that they have undergone a more rigorous background check than most and that they have demonstrated competence with the weapon they have registered as their CCW. I believe this option should be open to college students who also have CCW permits.

EDIT: CCW holders have also undergone training dealing with when to use firearms in an escalating situation.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That doesn't seem idiotic to me. If you want to protect your children, beyond what's already been done (secure buildings, bulletproof glass, magnetic scanners at entrances (at inner-city schools), security systems, emergency action plans, safety classes, lockable security doors on classrooms, faculty and students practicing regular "lock-down" drills, etc.) then what better way than to have trained, armed adults nearby who care about the children?

It makes a hell of a lot more sense than making it illegal to sell rifles which have flash suppressors on the barrels or a pistol-style grip, which will accomplish absolutely nothing, even if one could enforce that law. :roll:

Also, who said that idea originated with the NRA or even with "the right"? They may later have promoted it (I don't know if they did), but the first people I heard talking about it were NBC journalists on the day of the Sandy Hook shooting spree.
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PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
but can't you throw us a bone? What do you propose? anything that's not from the idiot book of arming everyone.

Nidal Hasan was a spree shooter. Please tell me how you think this could have been avoided or mitigated. All of the recent spree shooters have had exposure to and interactions with people that saw them as a threat at some level, yet there were no interventions that prevented the acts. Maybe we should just say "WTF?" when people are demonstrating threatening behavior patterns. Situational awareness and vigilance are much more labor intensive than passing some feel good legislation.

Later we can talk about the career criminals let back out into our neighborhoods who have a proven record of using weapons to kill and intimidate in the regular course of their pursuit of a livelihood.

Then we can talk about creds.

Then crimes of passion.

And finally suicides.

Gun control arguments that are divorced from any connotation of causality and responsibility will have problems with people who strive to exercise personal responsibility and expect the same of others. A funny aside, there are federal rules that require a person to be of good moral character in order to be allowed to do certain things. What the hell is that all about?

Elsewhere in the news. Newborns swirling about in the toilet bowl. Maybe you could save "just" one. Or, is it wrong for the police to do sobriety checks at the exits to establishment (restaurant, bar or convenience store) parking lots? Or maybe drug tests for drivers licenses? Remember the threshold is saving "just one".
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