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pjp
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:24 pm    Post subject: [guns] Why does no one care about the ACTUAL PROBLEM? Reply with quote

Obviously an underlying mental health issue, but nobody seems to care. ZOMG! Guns!!!!11111

Pennsylvania man kills himself inside Dick’s Sporting Goods after asking store employee to see a shotgun
Quote:
Police say the man entered [...] and asked to see a shotgun and ammunition. Once the clerk handed those over, the man pulled out a handgun and ordered the worker to undo the shotgun's gun lock.


Boehner says he ‘absolutely’ trusts Obama
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House Speaker John Boehner says he ‘‘absolutely’’ trusts President Barack Obama — not that they don’t have their differences.

Boehner told ABC’s ‘‘This Week’’ that the two have a good relationship and that they’re ‘‘open with each other ... honest with each other.’

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

but if we ban guns, then mentally unstable people who seriously want to kill themselves won't be able to do it as easily. that's a whole lot worse than when they kill or maim themselves or others by jumping off highway overpasses into heavy traffic, or drinking acid.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big dave wrote:
but if we ban guns, then mentally unstable people who seriously want to kill themselves won't be able to do it as easily. that's a whole lot worse than when they kill or maim themselves or others by jumping off highway overpasses into heavy traffic, or drinking acid.


it is rather lucky he didn't take the store clerk with him. But, i guess if your solution is to check everyone entering a sporting goods store (notice, checks at the sale point wouldn't have stopped this), then I guess that's a route to stopping the problem. Anyway, I am not sure what the gunnut solution is here.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The gunnut solution here is that shit happens. People kill themselves.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
The gunnut solution here is that shit happens. People kill themselves.


i.e. nothing. what if he killed the clerk?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
The gunnut solution here is that shit happens. People kill themselves.


i.e. nothing. what if he killed the clerk?


Gunnut response?

The clerk wasn't fast enough on his own gun draw.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BonezTheGoon wrote:
juniper wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
The gunnut solution here is that shit happens. People kill themselves.


i.e. nothing. what if he killed the clerk?


Gunnut response?

The clerk wasn't fast enough on his own gun draw.


i'll see if your fellow men concur on that.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
The gunnut solution here is that shit happens. People kill themselves.


i.e. nothing. what if he killed the clerk?

What if he had driven his car into the crowd of people on the sidewalk outside the store? What if he had walked into the store with a 5-gallon container of gasoline and immolated the people standing in line to check out, setting fire to the entire building? What if he'd gone into a nursing home with a chain saw? What if? What if? What if? :roll:
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
juniper wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
The gunnut solution here is that shit happens. People kill themselves.


i.e. nothing. what if he killed the clerk?

What if he had driven his car into the crowd of people on the sidewalk outside the store? What if he had walked into the store with a 5-gallon container of gasoline and immolated the people standing in line to check out, setting fire to the entire building? What if he'd gone into a nursing home with a chain saw? What if? What if? What if? :roll:

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
juniper wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
The gunnut solution here is that shit happens. People kill themselves.


i.e. nothing. what if he killed the clerk?

What if he had driven his car into the crowd of people on the sidewalk outside the store? What if he had walked into the store with a 5-gallon container of gasoline and immolated the people standing in line to check out, setting fire to the entire building? What if he'd gone into a nursing home with a chain saw? What if? What if? What if? :roll:


but didn't have any gasoline, chainsaw or a car (well, possibly he had a car). but he did have a gun.

just sayin. store owner was lucky, no? some guy who just committed suicide had a gun pointed at his head.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
juniper wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
The gunnut solution here is that shit happens. People kill themselves.


i.e. nothing. what if he killed the clerk?

What if he had driven his car into the crowd of people on the sidewalk outside the store? What if he had walked into the store with a 5-gallon container of gasoline and immolated the people standing in line to check out, setting fire to the entire building? What if he'd gone into a nursing home with a chain saw? What if? What if? What if? :roll:


but didn't have any gasoline, chainsaw or a car (well, possibly he had a car). but he did have a gun.

just sayin. store owner was lucky, no? some guy who just committed suicide had a gun pointed at his head.


He also didn't have any ammo. That's why he made the trip to Dick's. Had he had ammo, his suicide wouldn't have made the news.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
juniper wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
The gunnut solution here is that shit happens. People kill themselves.


i.e. nothing. what if he killed the clerk?

What if he had driven his car into the crowd of people on the sidewalk outside the store? What if he had walked into the store with a 5-gallon container of gasoline and immolated the people standing in line to check out, setting fire to the entire building? What if he'd gone into a nursing home with a chain saw? What if? What if? What if? :roll:


but didn't have any gasoline, chainsaw or a car (well, possibly he had a car). but he did have a gun.

just sayin. store owner was lucky, no? some guy who just committed suicide had a gun pointed at his head.

Can you think of a better way for an average person to commit suicide than a gun? The cause of this was probably that he was unable to legally obtain ammunition for his handgun due to his metal health, so he had to rob the store.

More importantly, though, why do say the store owner was "lucky"? Is there some correlation between people killing others and people killing themselves? What percentage of murders are accompanied by a suicide, and what percentage of suicides are accompanied by a murder? I don't know, but I'll bet a month of avatar humiliation that both are very, very small percentages, which would indicate non-correlation and that you are once again using completely fucked-up thinking when it comes to this issue.

So we must ask, why would an otherwise rational person believe, for some reason, that a person committing suicide is quite likely to kill other people too (and that's what's implied by you saying the store owner was "lucky")? If it's not brainwashing from watching excessive sensationalist news coverage of the very rare incidents that have come to be called "shooting sprees", then perhaps you'd care to enlighten us?

Was he more "lucky" not to have been shot by this guy than, say, involved a seriously injurious car accident on his way to work, or to have contracted HIV the night before, or to have been struck by lightning at the park during his lunch break? ZOMBG he lucky to make it through any day alive!
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
juniper wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
The gunnut solution here is that shit happens. People kill themselves.


i.e. nothing. what if he killed the clerk?

What if he had driven his car into the crowd of people on the sidewalk outside the store? What if he had walked into the store with a 5-gallon container of gasoline and immolated the people standing in line to check out, setting fire to the entire building? What if he'd gone into a nursing home with a chain saw? What if? What if? What if? :roll:


but didn't have any gasoline, chainsaw or a car (well, possibly he had a car). but he did have a gun.

just sayin. store owner was lucky, no? some guy who just committed suicide had a gun pointed at his head.

I've said it once and I'll say it again. The gun was meaningless here. The guy clearly had no intention of harming anyone but himself. To this end, the gun was entirely safe to the shop clerk.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:19 am    Post subject: Re: [guns] Why does no one care about the ACTUAL PROBLEM? Reply with quote

LOL

pjp wrote:
Why does no one care about the ACTUAL PROBLEM?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because the actual problem doesn't help them advance their authoritarian collectivist cause, and it clashes with their communitarian ideals (which have clearly established that "guns r bad, m'kay?", that violent video games are harmless, that divorce is just fine, the the welfare state does not inflict learned helplessness on people, that the pseudo-anonymity of the Internet is harmless and good, that using the TV or DVD player as a baby sitter is fine and good way to keep your kids quiet in the car, that consumerism doesn't hurt anybody, and so on.

The fact that we're cultivating violent behavior ourselves requires us to face some uncomfortable truths and make some difficult, unpleasant changes that we don't want to make. We don't want to give up all that crack. It's much easier to wish for a silver bullet that will just solve the problem.

When populist demagogues who have a left-wing authoritarian agenda, supported by a vast media empire that makes money poising our minds with violence, tell us "gun violence" is the problem and that "gun control"... no, no... it's now "Gun Safety" (that's like "revenue" instead of "taxes", or "overseas contingency operations" instead of "war") is the silver bullet, and when the rest of our lemming-tard herd is buying into that shit, naturally we're going to buy into it too.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love the bumper sticker that says "Gun control means using both hands"
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I prefer "Gun control is being able to hit your target."
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Gun control: It's all in the grip."

By the way, assault weapons ban failed in the Senate today.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
I prefer "Gun control is being able to hit your target."


Love it! Never have seen this one!
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Because the actual problem doesn't help them advance their authoritarian collectivist cause, and it clashes with their communitarian ideals (which have clearly established that "guns r bad, m'kay?", that violent video games are harmless, that divorce is just fine, the the welfare state does not inflict learned helplessness on people, that the pseudo-anonymity of the Internet is harmless and good, that using the TV or DVD player as a baby sitter is fine and good way to keep your kids quiet in the car, that consumerism doesn't hurt anybody, and so on.


school busing, all manner of anti-poverty measures have been used to curb crime. Some have been authoritarian. I am not sure how this is all a liberal conspiracy, but I think your glasses need cleaning.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Because the actual problem doesn't help them advance their authoritarian collectivist cause, and it clashes with their communitarian ideals (which have clearly established that "guns r bad, m'kay?", that violent video games are harmless, that divorce is just fine, the the welfare state does not inflict learned helplessness on people, that the pseudo-anonymity of the Internet is harmless and good, that using the TV or DVD player as a baby sitter is fine and good way to keep your kids quiet in the car, that consumerism doesn't hurt anybody, and so on.


school busing, all manner of anti-poverty measures have been used to curb crime. Some have been authoritarian. I am not sure how this is all a liberal conspiracy, but I think your glasses need cleaning.

Are you trying to conflate gun control with busing and anti-poverty measures and then claim that I am saying they collectively are "all" a grand conspiracy? Would that be yet another strawman?

The difference between busing and wealth transfer and gun control is that the constitution expressly forbids the government from interfering with the right of citizens to carry weapons. It doesn't expressly forbid the government from trying to provide equal opportunity and a minimum standard of welfare, or trying to reduce crime.

The Constitution is the foundation of our legal system. It's there to protect rights. We can make all the laws we want, as long as they don't violate the Constitution. If the vast majority of us agree, then we can change the Constitution. It's not rocket science.

Meanwhile, as far as all the agitation resulting from recent events goes, the real causes of homicide and violent crime are being ignored because of this irrational, politically-motivated focus on firearms.

It's another giant red herring to distract from Obama's economic and foreign policy failures. Make a big three-ring circus out of worn-out fights from the 1970s that really don't matter right now but remain hot-button issues: crap like "immigration", "gun control", and "reproductive rights". Use that to distract the ignorant masses from what's really going on: a stagnant economic recovery and trillions wasted on "stimulus"; trillions in new debt mounting an unsustainable rate that threatens our very National existence; the turning of tentative success in Iraq and progress in Afghanistan into two lost wars and trillions of wasted dollars; rapidly escalating authoritarianism including industrial-scale domestic spying and assassination of citizens; a complete foreign policy disaster in which we have cooperated with and aided hostile entities ranging from the hard-liners of Iran, Russian, Pakistan, Egypt, Libya, China, right down the line to giving weapons to the drug lords in Mexico; virtually nothing done about the pressing crisis of global warming; and so on.

But sure, let's all run around with our hair on fire about gun control, abortion and illegal immigrants, because that's what the puppet-master-in-chief says we should be thinking about. Never mind the total fuck-up behind the curtain.
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Last edited by Bones McCracker on Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Are you trying to conflate gun control with busing and anti-poverty measures and then claim that I am saying they collectively are "all" a grand conspiracy? Would that be yet another strawman?


you asked why don't people deal with the real causes of crime, and offered the answer that it doesn't further the authoritarian agenda of say liberals/progressives/journalists I don't know. And I said, that tackling the real problems has been used by liberals to push some authoritarian measures through.

Quote:

The Constitution is the foundation of our legal system. It's there to protect rights. We can make all the laws we want, as long as they don't violate the Constitution. If the vast majority of us agree, then we can change the Constitution. It's not rocket science.


I never said that govt officials dressed in black should knock on people's doors and demand their guns.

Quote:

Meanwhile, as far as all the agitation resulting from recent events goes, the real causes of homicide and violent crime are being ignored because of this irrational, politically-motivated focus on firearms.


honest people try and address all aspects of the problem.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see those "honest people". I see people like you blaming our right to bear arms and running around flailing their arms about it at every opportunity, while doing nothing about the real causes, despite the facts. The facts are that the percentage of our population who have gun has gone down steadily over the years, while incidents of randomly-targeted mass violence have gone up. They are completely unrelated. The global studies also find no relationship. Meanwhile, mostly because of this red herring, virtually nothing has been done as a result of these incidents to address the real causes.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The statistical significance of the bad side-effects of psychotropic drugs?

That problem?

Don't go there.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

flysideways wrote:
The statistical significance of the bad side-effects of psychotropic drugs?

That problem?

Don't go there.

I wonder how many mass-killers were in withdrawal from some kind of medication.
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