Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
Italy To Be Next Greece, Taking Eurozone Down With It
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

Goto page Previous  1, 2  
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Fran
Guru
Guru


Joined: 29 Feb 2004
Posts: 524
Location: Coruña (Spain)

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
I read that all the most attractive Spanish women are studying German, then moving to Germany to marry German men. I suppose that's one type of taking of the first-born.

Probably a joke, but nah. It's ~50-50. The unemployment is greater for women in general, but for young people it's the same for both genres (i.e., outrageously high).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
erm67
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 130
Location: somewhere in Berlusconia.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
erm67 wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
There is no faster way to make money than to marry someone who has it. It's the highest form of prostitution.


Divorce changed a lot things ... it is not so easy as it was to marry someone for the money and actually get the money....
that is exactly the kind of families that were destroyed by divorce laws

A woman can't get all the money, but they can do far better than a whore. Al a woman needs to do is keep a man happy for a few years and she's got him by the financial balls. The general rule is half the assets (or whatever has been agreed in a prenuptial document), plus support "in the style to which she has become accustomed" forever or until she re-marries.


That is US style divorce, at least in Italy, Germany, Australia and Sweden the woman can only hope to get 50% of what the family earned after the marriage. (but I am pretty sure it applies in most of the EU).

So basically here she can only gets 'support "in the style to which she has become accustomed" forever or until she re-marries' and only if the divorce is consensual or the husband is responsible for the divorce.
_________________
Truck!!
A posse ad esse non valet consequentia
Πάντα ῥεῖ
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
erm67
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 130
Location: somewhere in Berlusconia.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:46 am    Post subject: Re: Italy To Be Next Greece, Taking Eurozone Down With It Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
The French are watching this and saying, "See?! We don't need no stinking spending cuts!" Meanwhile Obama has his entire cabinet out peddling the same idea (and that any such discipline will mean the end of the world)


Austerity stoopid. Look at the UK.

"We must initiate savage austerity measures to keep our AAA rating and reduce the deficit."

What actually happened? Austerity choked off demand, shrunk the economy, increased the deficit and lost the UK its AAA rating.

Oops.

If you want to pay off debts, first you need to earn some money to pay the debts.


That is exactly Berlusconis plan, he is basically saying that we should absolutely not care about the spread or moody's rating, Italy thrived for decades with high debt and poor rating, the debt problem can be solved with devaluation, if the euro goes down it's better Italy's exports are booming, we're gonna export even more. So fuck the austerity, let's spend like crazy and tell the EU to fuck off, eat this or go down with us .... Not exactly the kind of attitude we need right now.
_________________
Truck!!
A posse ad esse non valet consequentia
Πάντα ῥεῖ
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
juniper
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 758
Location: EU

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John-Boy wrote:
mcgruff wrote:
If you don't earn any money you can't pay off your debts.


And so the borrowing that Gordon Brown kept pushing would have left us with
even higher debit


it's all backwards. GB should have been more tight fisted. money was flowing everywhere, we shouldn't have gone into debt during the golden years.

However, tightening spending now is silly. Not just tightening, but they way tightening is done. Unemployment high? Well, let's raise the bar for retraining! yeah, that's smart :roll: you want a short term plan without tightening and tighten when times are good. or just cause massive inflation. that will work too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
erm67
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 130
Location: somewhere in Berlusconia.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently the problem in Italy has been fixed :-) The Italian president reassured all EU partners (and investors) that Italy has a government (Mario Monti) and he will represent Italy at the next EU summit mid march.

So apparently Monti is going to stay, nobody really wants to handle the current situation, probably the best thing to do.
_________________
Truck!!
A posse ad esse non valet consequentia
Πάντα ῥεῖ
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1569
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
The fact remains that the UK lost its AAA rating and the deficit has increased because of an entirely predictable failure of austerity. If you don't earn any money you can't pay off your debts.

Youi not only don't understand economics, you don't understand basic cause and effect relationships.
_________________
"The accumulation of all power, legislative, executive, and judiciary in the same hands...may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny."
--James Madison, Federalist 46
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1569
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
John-Boy wrote:
mcgruff wrote:
If you don't earn any money you can't pay off your debts.


And so the borrowing that Gordon Brown kept pushing would have left us with
even higher debit


it's all backwards. GB should have been more tight fisted. money was flowing everywhere, we shouldn't have gone into debt during the golden years.

However, tightening spending now is silly. Not just tightening, but they way tightening is done. Unemployment high? Well, let's raise the bar for retraining! yeah, that's smart :roll: you want a short term plan without tightening and tighten when times are good. or just cause massive inflation. that will work too.

You've got it all backward. What doesn't make sense when the economy has shrunk is taking money out of the economy, where it would serve as either demand or capital, and putting it into the fat-ass, inefficient, bloated, wasteful, government coffers where it won't only not be spent for half a year, it probably won't create any value.

If the U.S. stimulus money had been immediately injected into the economy in the form of a tax break for everybody, we'd already be out of this mess, probably globally. But Obama pissed it away. Only a third of it went to the kind of infrastructure-building projects he said he was going to use it for. At the end of 2011, only half had actually been spent. Much of it still hasn't been spent. Most of it was sucked up as overhead as it cascaded down from one echelon of government bureaucracy to another.

Would more stimulus help? Absolutely, but not if it's done by this Administration. That would just be throwing more money down the shitter to be abused keeping government fat, sloppy, bloated and useless during a time when it ought to be figuring out how to tighten its belt and do more with less like everybody else. Taking on more debt for that purpose, padding government payrolls, expanding the redistribution of wealth, and funding pet projects, is not going to help the economy at all. The proof is right in front of us: that the economy has been slowly recovering at about the rate it would have if we had done nothing at all.

The so-called "austerity" being talked about here in the U.S. is hardly austere at all. We're talking about reduced expansion of government. Everybody, even the "mainstream" media, even MSNBC, are mocking the Obama Administration for the ridiculous doomsday scenarios they are painting. Even the most brainwashed liberals are starting to realize the budget stalemates in Washington have been an artificial crisis of his own making, fabricated as an excuse to break the rules.
_________________
"The accumulation of all power, legislative, executive, and judiciary in the same hands...may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny."
--James Madison, Federalist 46
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
McGruff
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 147

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You, like the UK government, claim that you can reduce the deficit by cutting spending. In fact, the deficit increased precisely because of savage austerity. That is why the UK lost its AAA rating: the policy is quite unambiguously failing but the government are insisting that they won't change anything.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1569
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
You, like the UK government, claim that you can reduce the deficit by cutting spending. In fact, the deficit increased precisely because of savage austerity. That is why the UK lost its AAA rating: the policy is quite unambiguously failing but the government are insisting that they won't change anything.

I bet you have trouble balancing your checkbook. Admit it; you do, don't you. You sit there and keep having to stop and go "wait... how does this work again... balance minus debit minus credit... no, wait...." :roll:
_________________
"The accumulation of all power, legislative, executive, and judiciary in the same hands...may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny."
--James Madison, Federalist 46
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
McGruff
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 147

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No you're having trouble balancing reality with your imagination. Moody's explicitly said that was why they were downgrading the UK.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
erm67
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 01 Nov 2005
Posts: 130
Location: somewhere in Berlusconia.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
You, like the UK government, claim that you can reduce the deficit by cutting spending. In fact, the deficit increased precisely because of savage austerity. That is why the UK lost its AAA rating: the policy is quite unambiguously failing but the government are insisting that they won't change anything.

Compare it with the Italian situation, spending cuts actually reduced the deficit but the GDP shrunk lightly, exports increased imports decreased a lot but internal consumption dropped, probably both were fueled by the generous govmt spending.. actually the idea of letting the euro fall even more down to increase the exports and save the economy is as stupid as the idea of printing a lot of paper money and distribute them to the population (stop austerity) to create a virtuous circle that magically saves the economy.
Done that already, like the US did, doesn't work.
Fortunately we are actually in a better situation than the UK since at least we do export goods :-)

It is funny how the same people that were arguing constantly against printing money out of thin air now advocate stopping the austerity program....
_________________
Truck!!
A posse ad esse non valet consequentia
Πάντα ῥεῖ


Last edited by erm67 on Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1569
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
No you're having trouble balancing reality with your imagination. Moody's explicitly said that was why they were downgrading the UK.

Bullshit.

I don't whose Kool Aid you've been drinking now, but that's not at all what they said. In fact, they said just about the opposite of that bullshit interpretation. They blamed it on sluggish recovery and on the mounting debt burden. In other words, the UK is neither recovering quickly nor doing enough (or able to do more) about deficit spending and debt:
Quote:
The key interrelated drivers of today's action are:

1. The continuing weakness in the UK's medium-term growth outlook, with a period of sluggish growth which Moody's now expects will extend into the second half of the decade;

2. The challenges that subdued medium-term growth prospects pose to the government's fiscal consolidation programme, which will now extend well into the next parliament;

3. And, as a consequence of the UK's high and rising debt burden, a deterioration in the shock-absorption capacity of the government's balance sheet, which is unlikely to reverse before 2016.

http://www.moodys.com/research/Moodys-downgrades-UKs-government-bond-rating-to-Aa1-from-Aaa--PR_266844
_________________
"The accumulation of all power, legislative, executive, and judiciary in the same hands...may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny."
--James Madison, Federalist 46
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
McGruff
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 147

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Economics isn't your forte is it? You just proved my point.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1569
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
Economics isn't your forte is it? You just proved my point.

I have a pretty extensive educational background in economics (six courses), along with professional experience dealing with Federal fiscal economics.

I'm willing to bet, from the vapidity of your commentary, that you've never even taken a single course in economics.
_________________
"The accumulation of all power, legislative, executive, and judiciary in the same hands...may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny."
--James Madison, Federalist 46
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John-Boy
Guru
Guru


Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 439
Location: Desperately seeking moksha in all the wrong places

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
John-Boy wrote:
mcgruff wrote:
If you don't earn any money you can't pay off your debts.


And so the borrowing that Gordon Brown kept pushing would have left us with
even higher debit


it's all backwards. GB should have been more tight fisted. money was flowing everywhere, we shouldn't have gone into debt during the golden years.

However, tightening spending now is silly. Not just tightening, but they way tightening is done. Unemployment high? Well, let's raise the bar for retraining! yeah, that's smart :roll: you want a short term plan without tightening and tighten when times are good. or just cause massive inflation. that will work too.


And when growth doesn't appear ? Increase spending - then borrow to pay interest rates, ad infinitum.

Eventual result. Greece.
_________________
It's later than you think
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum