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juniper
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
juniper wrote:
Muso wrote:
juniper wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Multiculti has failed. It will take decades for assimilation to be complete and undo the damage. Controlled rates of immigration allowing room for assimilation and integration are successful.


ah, a free marketer has drawn the line. I just didn't know where it was (however, i don't disagree with your statement, but I am not a free market worshiper).


Not all cultures are equal, Juniper. With the marketplace of ideas, some ideas rise and some fall. The reason why so many Mulsims leave their shithole countries is because of the backwards, bronze age cultures that run them. They then seem to get homesick and start importing that garbage to the West.


that was my point. So labelling it an immigration problem misses the mark. in both the US and Canada (and perhaps britain) the crime is disproportionately done by non-immigrants. So, what's the common current? it isn't immigration.

So what's your point here? That immigrants calling for Jihad against the culture of their new homeland is not a problem (because it does not account for a majority of crime)? Sounds like broken logic to me.


i never said that. it is a problem. as i said, whether or not he is allowed to say it should be independent of claiming welfare. why is that hard to understand?

Sorry, I don't see anything about welfare in this series of statements. I thought you were arguing it's not an immigration problem. Besides, he's the one who connected it to welfare by instructing people to claim their Jihad seeker's allowance. To wit:
Quote:
He laughed as he told supporters:

“You find people are busy working the whole of their life. They wake up at 7 o’clock. They go to work at 9 o’clock. They work for eight, nine hours a day. They come home at 7 o’clock, watch EastEnders, sleep, and they do that for 40 years of their life. That is called slavery.

"And at the end of their life they realise their pension isn’t going to pay out anything, the mortgage isn’t going to pay out anything.

"Basically they are going to lose everything, commit suicide. What kind of a life is that, honestly. That is the life of kuffar (non-believer).”

Former lawyer Choudary — twice banned from running organisations under the Terrorism Act — said some revered Islamic figures had only ever worked one or two days a year, adding: “The rest of the year they were busy with jihad (holy war) and things like that.”


again, if it is not against the law to instruct people to seek jihad seekers allowance, then it should be allowed.

Don't get me wrong. I think they should keep watch on the guy and charge him with j-walking every time he does it. free speech and welfare aren't connected.

I said crime and immigration aren't connected.
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energyman76b
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
juniper wrote:
name a few what?

I can give you a hint on solving your problem. give immigrants jobs, and not shitty ones. You say that they are unwilling to work. Groups have done studies in france and germany where identical CVs are distributed with french and muslim names (in france) and german and turkish names (in germany). Guess what? I am sure I don't need to tell you the outcome.

In the americas (US and Canada) they don't really practice this overt racism as done in Europe. Guess what? You don't see this phenomenon (as I said, crime has been falling as immigration rates have gone up). The over represented group in Canadian prison is natives and in american prison it is blacks, neither immigrants.


name a few places where crime went down while immigration went up - oh and stuff like this does not count:

1000 natives: 100 crimes/jear

next:
1000 nates: 50 crimes/year
10 immigrants: 25 crimes/year.

Yes, the crimes number went down. But not thanks to the immigrants.

And stop preaching about 'those poor immigrants' - billions have been pumped into special programs for immigrants. Free German classes. Heavily reduced fees for German classes. All kinds of (expensive) help and 'inclusion' programs.
But a certain part of the population (turks, albanians and other muslims) just refuse to take part. And if you refuse even to learn the local language - how are you supposed to get a good job?

I have a good solution:
2nd generation and not fluent in local language? Still not naturalized? Off you go.
Not a german passport and criminal? Off you go.

That would solve all the problems. Quickly.


USA, Canada, 1970 to now. Or most major cities in US and Canada. Toronto has more than 1/2 of its population now foreign born, but crime has been dropping for about 25 years.


that does not prove anything - if by the same time the crime rate of the immigrants shot up. Just have a look at the numbers I posted.

How about this?
Sexuelle Nötigung/ Vergewaltigung 439 31,8 185 42,1

10% of the population or responsible for 32% of all rapes/sexual assault. And those are the convicted cases. Our system loves to let immigrants to get away scots free. And I am talking out of experience.

Or this block:
Mord und Totschlag2 187 32,8

foreigners are responsible for almost 33% of all murders/manslaughters.

Does that sound like dispropionate? Well it should.

But there is one point where they strike an almost average rate:
Sexueller Miss­brauch von Kindern 225 10,5

sexual abuse of children 10.5% of all convicted persons were foreigners. Which is only a bit higher than the 8.8% rate of the population they make up.

Btw, all those violent russians with german passports count as germans - so these statistics are skewed - in the favour of immigrants.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
10% of the population or responsible for 32% of all rapes/sexual assault. And those are the convicted cases. Our system loves to let immigrants to get away scots free. And I am talking out of experience.

Were you molested by a Turk as a child?
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juniper
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:

name a few places where crime went down while immigration went up - oh and stuff like this does not count:


and neither do your stats. My point was that in other places immigrants don't have such issues. It is likely a poor problem rather than an immigrant problem.
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energyman76b
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
10% of the population or responsible for 32% of all rapes/sexual assault. And those are the convicted cases. Our system loves to let immigrants to get away scots free. And I am talking out of experience.

Were you molested by a Turk as a child?


no, I have relatives working for the public prosecutor. I also have some experience doing stuff for 'oh, please be nice in the future. It was not ok to almost beat him to death. Now lets eat some ice cream. Your victim will surely enjoy watching us all. To bad he can't join us. With his jaws wired shut' projects.

For some reason almost all 'customers' have turkish or russian names. A true mystery.
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AidanJT wrote:

Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
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energyman76b
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
energyman76b wrote:

name a few places where crime went down while immigration went up - oh and stuff like this does not count:


and neither do your stats. My point was that in other places immigrants don't have such issues. It is likely a poor problem rather than an immigrant problem.


wow. You are really trying hard to ignore the simple, basic facts. Brain washed much?

'Poor problem' - does not explain the 30% rape rate. It would explain the 20+% extortion rate. Or robberies. Maybe even violence. It doesn't explain the above average child abuse rate either.
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AidanJT wrote:

Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
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juniper
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
juniper wrote:
energyman76b wrote:

name a few places where crime went down while immigration went up - oh and stuff like this does not count:


and neither do your stats. My point was that in other places immigrants don't have such issues. It is likely a poor problem rather than an immigrant problem.


wow. You are really trying hard to ignore the simple, basic facts. Brain washed much?

'Poor problem' - does not explain the 30% rape rate. It would explain the 20+% extortion rate. Or robberies. Maybe even violence. It doesn't explain the above average child abuse rate either.


surely you have read that children or more likely abused in homes where parents are stressed (particularly money problems)?

it's a cultural poor problem. The point is that not all immigrants are like that. Take asians in the US and Canada. Asians are way over represented at universities and under represented in prison, and yet most are immigrants.

If you deal with it as an immigration problem you are going to miss the mark completely.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
I also have some experience doing stuff for 'oh, please be nice in the future. It was not ok to almost beat him to death. Now lets eat some ice cream. Your victim will surely enjoy watching us all. To bad he can't join us. With his jaws wired shut' projects.

:lol:
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pjp
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
it's a cultural poor problem. The point is that not all immigrants are like that. Take asians in the US and Canada. Asians are way over represented at universities and under represented in prison, and yet most are immigrants.
Excellent point. That's one area where "opponents" of the disproportionately imprisoned seem to overlook. Seems much more like a cultural poor problem. Complaining that more Martha Stewarts aren't in prison seems like the wrong focus.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or a genetic problem. Nobody's permitted to utter that, though.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Possibly, but IMO that seems unlikely. I think it has to do with the Jacksons, Farrahkahns, and Lees who prevent anyone from dealing with the issue by parading the Race Card around. Why deal with a major contributor to the problem when you can blame someone else.
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flysideways
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.newsmax.com/TheWire/farrakhan-chicago-gangs-soldiers-nation-of-islam/2013/02/25/id/491869

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/02/louis-farrakhan-urges-blacks-to-invest-88016.html
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energyman76b
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Or a genetic problem. Nobody's permitted to utter that, though.


oh noes! it is ok to put dogs into different races based on their fur colour and noses. But humans? That is just wrong! There is no difference! They look all the same! Lightly brownish yellow white with almost black ginger hair and green as coal hazelnut blue eyes.
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AidanJT wrote:

Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As mcgruff will tell you, there is no such thing as "race", and if you don't agree, you don't have teh Scyents.
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