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catkfr
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:13 pm    Post subject: gentoo on a mac: chroot or virtualbox? Reply with quote

Hello,

I've switched to mac a while back and have been out of touch with gentoo since then but I am starting to feel a craving for a gentoo fix!

I have a mac mini running OSX 10.8.2 with OSX server 2.2.1. I have macports on top of that but I don't have the control to manage servers the way I want. Anyways, I want gentoo back in a pure server kind of way: (no X, only CLI and running some servers).

I could do an install in Virtualbox but a gentoo user mentioned the alternative to just run a chroot within Mac OS X. I like the idea!

Do you see any reason why not do this or things I should be careful about?
All comments and suggestions welcome!

catkfr
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druggo
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey, gentoo prefix here :
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/gentoo-alt/prefix/
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Q-collective
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did run Gentoo prefix on a Lion install a while back. My experience with it was mixed: The basics seem pretty nicely covered, but if you want to install stuff like KDE apps (if I can run Konversation on a Mac, I'll try to do so!) you quickly run into limitations like ancient gcc versions and stuff.

If you want to run Gentoo as a stand-alone distro that you mount within a chroot: I'm all ears myself, but I doubt you'll get much response. I myself am planning on purchasing an iMac 27" later this year and, in preparation, opened a thread about it last December, but despite kicking it a few times I got nada responses so far. So that is rather disappointing.
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catkfr
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies. I had never heard of gentoo prefix, so thanks!

Given what I intend to do, I think I'll give gentoo prefix a try. As stated, I'm not looking at GUI stuff. I'll post some feedback here once I get this running.

@Q-collective: I had seen your post on the 27" iMac. Do you intend to try a 100% gentoo install or something hybrid keeping OS X in some way or another (dual boot, or something hybrid like what I'm trying to do)?
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Q-collective
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

catkfr wrote:
@Q-collective: I had seen your post on the 27" iMac. Do you intend to try a 100% gentoo install or something hybrid keeping OS X in some way or another (dual boot, or something hybrid like what I'm trying to do)?

I'm going for a full install, so a dualboot. I was wondering if people had some experience with that.

For example: OS X' Disk Utility only supports up to one extra partition if you have a Fusion Drive. Perhaps you can circumvent that with GParted (see my thread here), maybe not. I have yet to try. But it's stuff like that that I'm interested about as it might influence my plans for purchase.
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khayyam
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Q-collective wrote:
For example: OS X' Disk Utility only supports up to one extra partition if you have a Fusion Drive.

Q-collective ... I suspect you will have issues with 'fusion drives' for two reasons.

1). The OS expects to huristically transfer data to and from the SDD, based on system (ie, core OSX components) and usage (file access), basically the thing operates like a RAID-0 with (something like) unionfs/aufs (CoreStorage) on top. So, I'm not sure if Apple has/will take into account other OSes, and properly segregate the 'partitions' in terms of both the SDD and HDD. It may do so, but given its intergration with the OS, or rather how the OS manages, and makes use of, the 'fusion', it may not, the 'partition' may not span both the SDD and HDD. Additionally, there is the question of the GPT, and ESP (EFI System Paritition), tools like gpt-fdisk may have issues if the drive is fused, and you would also need to be able to mount the ESP to install, or modify, rEFInd, or whatever, bootloader. If linux can't make sense of the disk structure it may prove difficult to work with any of the diskutil constructed paritioning, and I'm not sure how OSX will react to data being altered (ie, on the ESP, or the gpt disk labels) outside of it being monitored/managed by CoreStorage.

2). If the second parition (both SDD and HDD sections) is left 'unused' and properly segregated, it may then be setup similarly to OSX, using RAID with aufs (or something similar) but the method used by CoreStorage seems to be based selecting the SDD or HDD for file storage using the criteria of access/use and this may be difficult to achieve with linux. There is sys-fs/e4rat but I think it'll be difficult to match CoreStorage. It may be easier to keep both SDD and HDD components seperate, but again, I'm not sure how OSX will react if partitioning or seperating the SDD/HDD layer.

Anyhow, a lot of speculation on my part, OSX may ignore whatever happens on the 'unused' section of the disk/s ... but I can imagine that the EFI and gpt may not be easy to work arround. Apple is generally known to break anything they lay their brand on, and use the Apple 'standard', so ymmv.

best ... khay
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Q-collective
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

khayyam wrote:
Q-collective wrote:
For example: OS X' Disk Utility only supports up to one extra partition if you have a Fusion Drive.

Q-collective ...

Thanks for your extensive reply.

Quote:
I suspect you will have issues with 'fusion drives' for two reasons.

1). The OS expects to huristically transfer data to and from the SDD, based on system (ie, core OSX components) and usage (file access), basically the thing operates like a RAID-0 with (something like) unionfs/aufs (CoreStorage) on top. So, I'm not sure if Apple has/will take into account other OSes, and properly segregate the 'partitions' in terms of both the SDD and HDD. It may do so, but given its intergration with the OS, or rather how the OS manages, and makes use of, the 'fusion', it may not, the 'partition' may not span both the SDD and HDD.

It will not. To quote from the relevant Apple document:

Quote:
Can I add a partition to the hard disk with Fusion Drive?
Using Disk Utility, you can add one partition to the hard disk on Fusion Drive. Once you add the partition, the "plus" symbol in Disk Utility to add additional partitions will be grayed out. You cannot partition the Flash storage.

If I create a hard disk partition is it part of Fusion Drive?
The additional partition is not part of Fusion Drive. The new partition is a separate volume that is physically located on the hard disk drive.

So, any secondary partition will always only exist on the HDD, not on the SSD.

Quote:
Additionally, there is the question of the GPT, and ESP (EFI System Paritition), tools like gpt-fdisk may have issues if the drive is fused, and you would also need to be able to mount the ESP to install, or modify, rEFInd, or whatever, bootloader. If linux can't make sense of the disk structure it may prove difficult to work with any of the diskutil constructed paritioning, and I'm not sure how OSX will react to data being altered (ie, on the ESP, or the gpt disk labels) outside of it being monitored/managed by CoreStorage.

The strange thing is exactly that any partitioning happens solely on the HDD. So, it is somewhat of a riddle then why Disk Utility only allows one extra partition.

Quote:
2). If the second parition (both SDD and HDD sections) is left 'unused' and properly segregated, it may then be setup similarly to OSX, using RAID with aufs (or something similar) but the method used by CoreStorage seems to be based selecting the SDD or HDD for file storage using the criteria of access/use and this may be difficult to achieve with linux. There is sys-fs/e4rat but I think it'll be difficult to match CoreStorage. It may be easier to keep both SDD and HDD components seperate, but again, I'm not sure how OSX will react if partitioning or seperating the SDD/HDD layer.

This is non-applicable info, as any new partition is only on the HDD :)

Quote:
Apple is generally known to break anything they lay their brand on, and use the Apple 'standard', so ymmv.

Yeah, I know Apple has its quirks. Which is why I opened my thread in the first place :p
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PeGa!
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:11 pm    Post subject: Neither chroot nor virtualbox, go native! Reply with quote

Hi all,

I've recently installed Linux Mint (i know, i know, keep reading) on a Macbook Air (Late 2011):

    Core I5
    4GB DDR3
    128 GB SSD (:()
    Intel HD Graphics 4000


I downloaded a normal Installation DVD of Linux Mint 14 (keep reading...) and performed a normal installation watching out to NOT delete the first (EFI) partition. I re-partitioned the disk, but did NOT delete the first partition. What amazes me, is that I created four partitions... alongside the first (EFI) partition. Thus, Mac booted as usual, and (don't ask me why) through the EFI partition and reached grub2.

The installation procedure was absolutely normal, and the only thing I could detect after examining the results, was that it installed grub2 with some kind of EFI compatibility. Ah! Warning!

DO NOT -- I repeat -- DO NOT INSTALL GRUB ON THE MBR. It is a highway to your Mac's destruction and a terrible headache. Alright, just to an avoidable headache.

As I was saying, the only "strange" thing I've done is to install grub2 to the partition itself, and not to the disk's MBR. In that way, I assume that installing Gentoo (I'm a hardcore Gentoo user/admin, I just wanted to test GNU/Linux on that *thing* as soon as possible) is not harder than that.


Best regards,

Pablo.[/b]
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