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pjp
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:53 am    Post subject: Vegans exploiting the less fortunate Reply with quote

Can vegans stomach the unpalatable truth about quinoa?


Also, the byproduct(s) of Greek yogurt are apparently toxic to the environment.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was reading about this quinoa problem recently. It falls right in with the corn ethanol distortions to the world's food markets.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At least quinoa isn't being subsidized with stolen money.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that if we have to start eating people in order to survive that vegans would taste the best. Grain fed soylent green please.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:05 am    Post subject: Re: Vegans exploiting the less fortunate Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Also, the byproduct(s) of Greek yogurt are apparently toxic to the environment.

Never heard of this before. Any more info on this? What byproducts would these be?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:09 am    Post subject: Re: Vegans exploiting the less fortunate Reply with quote

Clad in Sky wrote:
pjp wrote:
Also, the byproduct(s) of Greek yogurt are apparently toxic to the environment.

Never heard of this before. Any more info on this? What byproducts would these be?

Presumably yuppies in SUVs pumping hydrocarbons into the air while they trundle between home and the organic vegetable market.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah?
Don't see the connection between yogurt and the vegetable market myself, but maybe you're right.
Her e you can buy the stuff in a standard supermarket.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clad in Sky wrote:
Ah?
Don't see the connection between yogurt and the vegetable market myself, but maybe you're right.
Her e you can buy the stuff in a standard supermarket.

I was being facetious. I can't find any information that yoghurt directly or indirectly hurts the environment. And apart from possible malnutrition and antisocial bowel emissions, Vegans probably are just like ordinary people, just paler and more likely to have the sniffles constantly.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I can help you with "indirectly":
Yogurt is made from milk, milk comes out of mammals (and the milk we drink comes from plant eating mammals), plant eating mammals produce quite a lot of methane, methane is a far more potent greenhouse gas than CO2. :D
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clad in Sky wrote:
Well, I can help you with "indirectly":
Yogurt is made from milk, milk comes out of mammals (and the milk we drink comes from plant eating mammals), plant eating mammals produce quite a lot of methane, methane is a far more potent greenhouse gas than CO2. :D

Ahh, yes. Forgot about cow farts. Vegans wouldn't eat milk products anyway. They do fart almost as much as cows, however.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:34 am    Post subject: Re: Vegans exploiting the less fortunate Reply with quote

sikpuppy wrote:
Clad in Sky wrote:
pjp wrote:
Also, the byproduct(s) of Greek yogurt are apparently toxic to the environment.

Never heard of this before. Any more info on this? What byproducts would these be?

Presumably yuppies in SUVs pumping hydrocarbons into the air while they trundle between home and the organic vegetable market.

:lol:

You just described my overweight, on a health-kick sister-in-law going to Whole Foods and Trader Joe's in her Volvo XC70 four times a week because she doesn't like to have to carry into the house more than two bags of her organic, healthy, environmentally friendly groceries.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rather sad.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clad in Sky wrote:
Well, I can help you with "indirectly":
Yogurt is made from milk, milk comes out of mammals (and the milk we drink comes from plant eating mammals), plant eating mammals produce quite a lot of methane, methane is a far more potent greenhouse gas than CO2. :D

Imagine being trapped in a 30-foot greenhouse with two dozen prodigiously farting vegans.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sikpuppy wrote:
Clad in Sky wrote:
Ah?
Don't see the connection between yogurt and the vegetable market myself, but maybe you're right.
Her e you can buy the stuff in a standard supermarket.

I was being facetious. I can't find any information that yoghurt directly or indirectly hurts the environment. And apart from possible malnutrition and antisocial bowel emissions, Vegans probably are just like ordinary people, just paler and more likely to have the sniffles constantly.


vegans are more likely to produce retarded offspring. They are not born as retards, lacking a good source of easily absorved B-vitamins and assorted essential amino-acids damps down brain development so they end up as retards.

A fatty has his infarct and just dies.
A retard lives for 80 years in foster homes and costs a lot of money.

So vegans are a blight of society and must be hunted down.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We need some good posters to spread the word!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
vegans are more likely to produce retarded offspring. They are not born as retards, lacking a good source of easily absorved B-vitamins and assorted essential amino-acids damps down brain development so they end up as retards.


well if that's not a very good scientific analysis..!!! I love it when people get "scientific" to justify their way of life..!! I won't start a discussion why this is bullshit because often people just want to do something (like eating a steak, smoking a cigar etc) and because they can't sleep at night when they have to face that what they do is wrong, they start to get "scientific" or whatever suits to justify their habits..

Quote:
So vegans are a blight of society and must be hunted down

Although I hope and think this is a joke (when a german says something like that one can never be sure... :wink: ) I just want to ask bonekracker if this is not "extreme"?? you called me an extremist, but when someone says something extreme that fits in your system it's ok?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LoTeK wrote:
Quote:
vegans are more likely to produce retarded offspring. They are not born as retards, lacking a good source of easily absorved B-vitamins and assorted essential amino-acids damps down brain development so they end up as retards.


well if that's not a very good scientific analysis..!!! I love it when people get "scientific" to justify their way of life..!! I won't start a discussion why this is bullshit because often people just want to do something (like eating a steak, smoking a cigar etc) and because they can't sleep at night when they have to face that what they do is wrong, they start to get "scientific" or whatever suits to justify their habits..

Quote:
So vegans are a blight of society and must be hunted down

Although I hope and think this is a joke (when a german says something like that one can never be sure... :wink: ) I just want to ask bonekracker if this is not "extreme"?? you called me an extremist, but when someone says something extreme that fits in your system it's ok?

I've been reading his misanthropic hyperbole for years, and I know he's just grumbling and trying to be funny. You, on the other hand, seem to be an absolutist and True Believer in the extreme degrees of authoritarian collectivism that killed a billion people this past century.
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Last edited by Bones McCracker on Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LoTeK wrote:
Quote:
vegans are more likely to produce retarded offspring. They are not born as retards, lacking a good source of easily absorved B-vitamins and assorted essential amino-acids damps down brain development so they end up as retards.


well if that's not a very good scientific analysis..!!!

Yes, it doesn't take into account simple genetic heredity ....
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:57 am    Post subject: Re: Vegans exploiting the less fortunate Reply with quote

Clad in Sky wrote:
pjp wrote:
Also, the byproduct(s) of Greek yogurt are apparently toxic to the environment.

Never heard of this before. Any more info on this? What byproducts would these be?


Quote:
There's another problem, too: What to do with the whey that's left over from the Greek yogurt straining process? Rolf Carlson, vice president of sourcing and development at the yogurt manufacturer Stonyfield Farm explained that there are two kinds of whey: Sweet whey can be used as a food additive, but acid whey isn't as useful. Many major yogurt manufacturers give their acid whey to farmers to be used as animal feed or fertilizer, but according to Carlson, farmers must be careful when applying it to cropland, since whey runoff can pollute waterways (PDF). "It can affect the microbiology of the water," says Carlson. Some good news: Both Stonyfield Farm and the Greek yogurt company Chobani told me they are in the process building pricey anaerobic digesters to convert their waste whey into energy to power the factories.
http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2010/06/greek-yogurt-better-regular
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
LoTeK wrote:
Quote:
vegans are more likely to produce retarded offspring. They are not born as retards, lacking a good source of easily absorved B-vitamins and assorted essential amino-acids damps down brain development so they end up as retards.


well if that's not a very good scientific analysis..!!! I love it when people get "scientific" to justify their way of life..!! I won't start a discussion why this is bullshit because often people just want to do something (like eating a steak, smoking a cigar etc) and because they can't sleep at night when they have to face that what they do is wrong, they start to get "scientific" or whatever suits to justify their habits..

Quote:
So vegans are a blight of society and must be hunted down

Although I hope and think this is a joke (when a german says something like that one can never be sure... :wink: ) I just want to ask bonekracker if this is not "extreme"?? you called me an extremist, but when someone says something extreme that fits in your system it's ok?

I've been reading his misanthropic hyperbole for years, and I know he's just grumbling and trying to be funny. You, on the other hand, seem to be an absolutist and True Believer in the extreme degrees of authoritarian collectivism that killed a billion people this past century.


haha, ok... :) well, don't judge a book by it's cover...
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LoTeK wrote:
haha, ok... :) well, don't judge a book by it's cover...

Good Idea.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

In Kenya two tribes, the Maasai and the Kikuyu, live in the same country, the same climate, the same political system and the same environment. The Maasai, when wholly carnivorous, drinking only the blood and milk of their cattle, were tall, healthy, long-lived and slim. The Kikuyu, when wholly vegetarian, were stunted, diseased, short-lived and pot-bellied. Over the last few decades, the Kikuyu have started to eat meat — and their health has improved. Since 1960 the Maasai diet has also changed, but in the opposite direction. They are now eating less blood, milk and meat, replacing it with maize and beans. Their health has deteriorated (34) .


any more questions?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't call really call them questions, but this sounds very much like boulevard-shit, like the "bild-zeitung" in germany :) Obviously I have to say it again: Mike Tyson is vegan and would still punch most people away or "germanys stronges man":
http://newsciencereview.com/?p=667

besides I know one martial arts specialist personally(50 years old, very healthy and strong and vegan...

then other reasons are more "real science" in the sense that many studies showed that vegetarians and vegans with the right diet are healthier then carnivorous (although many of them maybe have already a healthier lifestyle and of course the subject is very complex and I'm sure there are studies that show the opposite, so I generally don't say things like: mememe, this study showed that blablabla, because even in physics one can make clear propositions. Although you maybe deliberately take an example with:
Quote:
live in the same country, the same climate, the same political system and the same environment.
it's next to nothing and I could bring now examples from india where vegan tribes are way more healthier...)

and despite all of this there is also a very strong moral issue and it was very funny (or better very sad) and interesting when I had to learn history for my maturity exam, that in the american civil war the very same arguments as today were common, why one can mistreat other creatures. Except back then were the creatures black people, 70 years ago were the jews very prominent and today animals. Of course maybe someone now says: jews and black people are humans and not animals, but back then if you've said that you would have been deride because white people were way "superior" (of course in africa or where ever is another "race" the best).

One friend of mine once said, so what humans have always treated animals like that, it's nature, blablabla, but humans also raped children since ever and I think if one's child gets raped one will consider the argument "it's nature, so what" again or one is a fucking sociopath ..
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LoTeK wrote:
I wouldn't call really call them questions, but this sounds very much like boulevard-shit, like the "bild-zeitung" in germany :) Obviously I have to say it again: Mike Tyson is vegan and would still punch most people away or "germanys stronges man":
http://newsciencereview.com/?p=667


First flaw:
Quote:
When I started the vegetarian diet 2005 I knew little about the effect it would have on my performance and strength
.....
2011 after winning the German strongman title I was ready to take the next step and switch to a vegan diet.


He started being Vegetarian in 2005 and being vegan in 2011 how should this prove that a vegan regime is good or bad for his health?
Beside that he built his muscles out of cow proteins, now only has to keep them, how could this prove that someone vegan from infancy can build such muscles?
LoTeK wrote:

besides I know one martial arts specialist personally(50 years old, very healthy and strong and vegan...


I know a vegan that died under a car crossing the road, but I never say all vegans are going to die that way :-)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
He started being Vegetarian in 2005 and being vegan in 2011 how should this prove that a vegan regime is good or bad for his health?
Beside that he built his muscles out of cow proteins, now only has to keep them, how could this prove that someone vegan from infancy can build such muscles?

First: I didn't say this proves anything!
Second: He definitely doesn't "just" have to keep them, thats hard work..
Third: I just found this article a few day ago and although I know a few bodybuilder (and they are vegan) I definitely don't want to say that this is the better way to become a strong man, but I want to say that either eating meat or whatever is necessary to become strong.

The problem with a vegan diet is that you have to know what you must eat to get all necessary vitamins etc and of course if you are living in a western country for example, with a "normal" diet and then you will just stop eating meat/yogurt etc of course this is not good. Then you maybe become sick or whatever and in the media are often cases of people that don't know what a right vegan diet is and then people think vegan is bad, you know what I mean?

Quote:
I know a vegan that died under a car crossing the road, but I never say all vegans are going to die that way :-)

:) yes and I didn't say every fighter is vegan but I think you understand what I want to say...

and I also want to add another thing:
Quote:
....drinking only the blood and milk of their cattle...
I would like to see your face, energyman76b, if I'm gonna walk around the street and drinking blood of animals or humans like vampires :lol:

EDIT:
and you have left an important part after the "When I started the vegetarian diet 2005 I knew little about the effect it would have on my performance and strength" part:
Quote:
Expecting at least a slight inverse effect on my training performance I was amazed by the great gains in lean body-mass and strength I got with the meat-free diet

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