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pjp
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
pjp wrote:
mcgruff wrote:
Shooting animals should be allowed but not shooting people. [...]
The US would be a much, much better place if shooting people could only become as socially unacceptable as, er, smoking.
Shooting people is illegal AND socially unacceptable. Imagine that.


it's rather celebrated in much of pop culture. surely you have seen a movie/tv show/video game lately.
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-7231418.html#7231418

Surely you do know the difference between reality and make believe.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
juniper wrote:
full of anecdotes. no stats. But, I do like the refreshing non "gubermint will take my guns" approach.


It's not even genuine. "I used to be a liberal but..." "I used to believe in climate change but.." "I used to believe in medicare but..." Its just empty rhetoric.

Sophistry and lies. That's all the pro-gun crowd have. Meanwhile people die every day who should never have had to die.

Wrong. The pro individual rights people have the facts, the logic, the scientific analysis, and bedrock-layer law. Against that you authoritarian collectivists have "Every day people in black shoes trip and fall ZOMG it's time once and for all to take black shoes away! ZoMg Teh HewManitee!! \°/ "
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I didn't misquote you, I just misunderstood you.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
mcgruff wrote:
juniper wrote:
full of anecdotes. no stats. But, I do like the refreshing non "gubermint will take my guns" approach.


It's not even genuine. "I used to be a liberal but..." "I used to believe in climate change but.." "I used to believe in medicare but..." Its just empty rhetoric.

Sophistry and lies. That's all the pro-gun crowd have. Meanwhile people die every day who should never have had to die.

Wrong. They pro individual rights people have the facts, the logic, the scientific analysis, and bedrock-layer law. Against that you authoritarian collectivists have "Every day people in black shoes trip and fall ZOMG it's time once and for all to take black shoes away! ZoMg Teh HewManitee!! \°/ "


We have the right. He has a desire to take away our right.

Fuck fascism.
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flysideways
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dona Shalala walked the walk. In this one instance this woman showed the leftists how to live by their doctrine, without their protection details. Kudos.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Health and Human Services Secretary Donna Shalala thwarted a robbery attempt Sunday morning in Georgetown by throwing herself to the ground and screaming after a man demanded that she give up her wallet, police said.

:lol: :lol:

She's lucky they didn't just kick her in the head and take it.

Also, the only reason the perps took off was the fear that her screams would bring somebody carrying a gun.
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I didn't misquote you, I just misunderstood you.


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flysideways
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another elitist who's more equal than the rest of us.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flysideways wrote:
Another elitist who's more equal than the rest of us.


Hahahahah look at those security guys at the beginning. :lol:
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flysideways wrote:
Another elitist who's more equal than the rest of us.


politicians are targets, no?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
flysideways wrote:
Another elitist who's more equal than the rest of us.


politicians are targets, no?


Just like property owners and good looking women, not to mention every human confronting a criminal.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
juniper wrote:
flysideways wrote:
Another elitist who's more equal than the rest of us.


politicians are targets, no?


Just like property owners and good looking women, not to mention every human confronting a criminal.


are you really comparing yourself to the president? (that guy was not. he was a douche).
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Muso wrote:
juniper wrote:
flysideways wrote:
Another elitist who's more equal than the rest of us.


politicians are targets, no?


Just like property owners and good looking women, not to mention every human confronting a criminal.


are you really comparing yourself to the president? (that guy was not. he was a douche).

bloomberg and his entourage are definitely douches here.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Muso wrote:
juniper wrote:
flysideways wrote:
Another elitist who's more equal than the rest of us.


politicians are targets, no?


Just like property owners and good looking women, not to mention every human confronting a criminal.


are you really comparing yourself to the president? (that guy was not. he was a douche).


Your reverence for politicans is disturbing.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
are you really comparing yourself to the president?
Are you really claiming only presidents (or politicians) can be a target?
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flysideways
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
politicians are targets, no?


I can't say if that one has actually suffered a violent encounter or only close approaches.

I wasn't going to pile on you. I would suggest that you consider what made you respond with that question.

Is it rational to protect from a perceived threat?

The threat assessment link that I posted elsewhere is a good read. After reading that consider that all of the US national politicians have security details that understand these things even if they claim to not (the politicians). It is specious for any of them to argue that people that have suffered from known threats should not protect as they do. See all of the derision about armed protection in schools. Good enough for their children but not ours ...

What is most chilling is the realization that pretty much every mass shooting in the US has had perpetrators that fit the description very well. The indicators for the Tuscon shooter were screaming for intervention in this context. He so scared the college that they sent their police to bugger him off. The Colorado one, maybe there was a reason that our President wanted to clarify that doctors could report credible threats of violence without breaking any laws.

If you follow what was known about Timothy McVeigh it is heartwrenching that he was not found out in time for interdiction. They showed pictures of him outside the Waco compound and he was supposedly stalking Horiuchi. Children were killed there too(Oklahoma City), in the daycare.

As an aside the guy that shot Pam Dawber's costar from My Sister Sam was from Tuscon. Watched that show some back when, forgot that it was that long ago.

The politics of this are just theater and an agenda that has not changed for many years, it just needed another host.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
I welcome any kind of gun control legislation. Shooting animals should be allowed but not shooting people. All pistols should be banned as well as any other types of weapon which have a high, sustained rate of fire. Access to shotguns or rifles used by farmers for pest control or hunters to hunt game should be carefully controlled, excluding anyone who can reasonably be thought to be a risk to others or themselves.

The US would be a much, much better place if shooting people could only become as socially unacceptable as, er, smoking.


McGruff, I'm a little confused. Since the police cannot be everywhere I am, and have no legal responsibility to protect me, how exactly do you suggest I respond to an attack if not with a firearm?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avoid if you can. If not, defend yourself as best you can.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
Avoid if you can. If not, defend yourself as best you can.


Well the first is what one should do regardless. as to the second, how? My best method isto use a firearm, but without it... I'm not stupid enough to willingly get in a knife fight, and while I am quite large, I would still be at a disadvantage if facing a younger opponent, especially if that person isn't missing any body parts, like I am.

Are you suggesting that I just stand there and accept what an assailant does?

NQS
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm saying try to avoid getting into a fight but, if you can't, defend yourself as best you can without a gun.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
I'm saying try to avoid getting into a fight but, if you can't, defend yourself as best you can without a gun.


But politicians should be protected with armed guards, right?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
I'm saying try to avoid getting into a fight but, if you can't, defend yourself as best you can without a gun.


Yes, and I'm saying that the lack of a firearm puts me automatically at a disadvantage. In the real world no one is exactly alike, and one will always have an advantage over the other. Hence the need for an "equalizer"

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
I'm saying try to avoid getting into a fight but, if you can't, defend yourself as best you can without a gun.


So basically you are saying that it is tough shit if NQS has to die, the appearance of Pony Land has to be maintained?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
But politicians should be protected with armed guards, right?


Yes.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NotQuiteSane wrote:
In the real world no one is exactly alike, and one will always have an advantage over the other. Hence the need for an "equalizer"


Your "equalizer" is in fact an "escalator" which increases the level of danger by introducing a threat of lethal force to many situations where it (mostly) did not exist.

All this self-defence stuff is hogwash. What you are really talking about, if you would only admit it, is the fear of losing control. Guns only give the illusion of control at the same time as increasing the risk that you are going to get killed. You're better off without them.

I'm sure you can imagine all kinds of scenarios where guns save the day. Some of them will be true. However, the harm done by guns vastly outweighs the small amount of good they actually do.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
Muso wrote:
But politicians should be protected with armed guards, right?


Yes.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

It's getting late, you'd better iron your uniform before tomorrow.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
mcgruff wrote:
Muso wrote:
But politicians should be protected with armed guards, right?


Yes.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

It's getting late, you'd better iron your uniform before tomorrow.

The Serf mindset. It's instinctive behavior. He really can't help himself.
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