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Bones McCracker
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Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1569
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
For once I agree with BK. Why don't you go and discover the secret of immortality Juniper, huh? Why? Only when you have conquered all other forms of death will you be allowed to talk about guns.

That's a bit of a strawman there, wouldn't you say? First of all, the whole "gun violence" panic is specious at best. Most of the harm caused by guns would happen anyway, guns or not. Testament to this fact is the lack of correlation between firearms restrictions and rates of homicide, violent crime, etc. You're taking away all the black shoes to prevent tripping.

Secondly, I'm not saying people aren't allowed to talk about it; they've been talking about it since the Constitution was being drafted. What I'm saying is that all this reaction to this incident is false altruism. What makes it obvious is the fact that we've got much bigger problems that need our attention and energy, among them problems much more easily resolved. If it weren't false altruism, there wouldn't suddenly be a mass lemming-herd stampede to ZOMG solve this problem.

The timing of this populist anti 2nd Amendment lemming-herd frenzy has less to do with the latest shooting incident that to do with Democrat perceptions that, since Obama was re-elected, the majority has validated their positions on everything. The reality is that Obama was elected by less half the voters and the election was so close that if electoral ballots were allocated at the level of Congressional districts or counties, rather than at state level, Obama would have lost. That's not a decisive mandate to do anything. The reality is that this is nothing but populist theater being used opportunistically to take additional rights away from individuals and strengthen the hand of authoritarianism, as an enabler of forced collectivism.

When he sees the doctor, a rational person with a broken leg and chronic asthma gets help for the broken leg. You guys are elevating this issue to a level of priority that irrational, putting it ahead of issues of much greater significance (if the well-being of the people is your actual concern) which can be more readily addressed. That's a clear sign there's something fishy in the thinking, and it's no secret what that is (except perhaps to the brainwashed muppet army acting out the arm-flailing and bellyaching their controllers incited them to perform).
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juniper
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Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 758
Location: EU

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:

That's completely irrational. Preventable harm is preventable harm. Furthermore, if the fact that it's intentional has any significance, it's that the problem which needs to be addressed is behavioral, not hardware. Tell me I'm not making sense.


Legally and morally we make a distinction between the two. Someone who runs over a child accidentally isn't in the same category as someone who murders one. Be real.

As for your other point, both underlying causes and hardware should be addressed.

Quote:

Wait. All of a sudden we're talking about "homicide rate"? Are you trying to suggest that there's a relationship between guns and homicide rate? Because, if you are, you haven't established that. See, this goes back to "facts, logic, and scientific analysis", all of which says no such relationship exists.


I should have said gun deaths. You concede there is a relationship there, no?

Quote:

Also, we're not talking about me, so I don't need your vote. We're talking about why you, and people like you, are all apeshit about "gun violence", when there are many other things causing much more harm which are much more easily changed. You still haven't explained that.


I didn't know all other problems needed to be solved first. Stated well here.

mcgruff wrote:

For once I agree with BK. Why don't you go and discover the secret of immortality Juniper, huh? Why? Only when you have conquered all other forms of death will you be allowed to talk about guns.
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flysideways
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Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 151

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
I am all for reducing harm done by cars. Any suggestions? I am ALL ears. .


Over here, professionals in addition to constant training and testing of knowledge and skills are subject to these procedures which were legislated more than twenty years ago. That's not to say that those legislators lead the way by themselves being subject to said procedures while they are conducting their safety-sensitive jobs. There's that more equal than the rest thing so many of them enjoy.
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juniper
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Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 758
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

flysideways wrote:
juniper wrote:
I am all for reducing harm done by cars. Any suggestions? I am ALL ears. .


Over here, professionals in addition to constant training and testing of knowledge and skills are subject to these procedures which were legislated more than twenty years ago. That's not to say that those legislators lead the way by themselves being subject to said procedures while they are conducting their safety-sensitive jobs. There's that more equal than the rest thing so many of them enjoy.


don't know what you are talking about.
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