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flysideways
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 145
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 Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:02 pm Post subject: It's Time to Ban Aviation |
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-21040410
I know far too many people that have died because of aviation. It is time to bring an end to this terror and horror. |
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notageek
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 78
Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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I immediately thought of this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21038128 when I read your thread title.
(Not trying to hijack.)
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What looks like a cat, flies like a bat, brays like a donkey, and plays like a monkey? |
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Naib
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 3930
Location: UK - Birmingham
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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To be fair the pilot did ask to be redirected since he was concerned about weather conditions (freezing fog) and was denied.
flying still is really safe (just when things go wrong bam... eg a jumbo takes out 200ppl not just 4 in one car)...
The Boeing thing is bad, really bad... the fleet needs to be ground for this battery issue - prob water ingress. |
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sikpuppy
n00b
Joined: 12 Jun 2012
Posts: 23
Location: Central Coast, NSW
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Lame allusion is lame. |
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wswartzendruber
Veteran
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 1197
Location: Jefferson, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Banning alcohol would bring you far better results. |
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Prenj
n00b
Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 7
Location: Mostar, BiH
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Ban cranes! And everything with sharp edges. Also anything not chewable. |
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bogamol
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 84
Location: Detroit, Michigan - The Home of Rock and Roll
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Prenj wrote: | | Ban cranes! And everything with sharp edges. Also anything not chewable. |
What?! You'll break a tooth on that. Ban chewable things too!
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Yo momma's so classless she's a Marxist utopia! |
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notageek
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 78
Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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No, he's right. That might bring down the world's population.
Hang on, those are storks.
Okay carry on.
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What looks like a cat, flies like a bat, brays like a donkey, and plays like a monkey? |
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pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16029
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:36 am Post subject: |
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| Naib wrote: | | To be fair the pilot did ask to be redirected since he was concerned about weather conditions (freezing fog) and was denied. |
Once again reinforcing the need to ban government.
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lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.
In Loving Memory
1787 - 2008 |
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Naib
Advocate
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 3930
Location: UK - Birmingham
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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The report is interestingly non-conclusive
http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/2013/boeing_787/interim_report_B787_3-7-13.pdf
The FAA were smart enough to add additional clauses surrounding LiIon batteries, something the battery did not actually fulfil...
I'm surprised, these FAA special conditions would have been flown down to the battery manufacturer as requirements, requirements which they would have had to demonstrate compliance to... so either Boeing didn't show due diligence in requirement matching or the tests which the batteries were subjected to were non-representative of likely failure mode.
The fact the exact cause of the failure is just as bad, means the planes are going to be grounded for longer and very soon a few airlines are going to be calling for some form of compensation |
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pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16029
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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Seems like they bit off more than they could chew in going with a completely new design and process.
Maybe they should take a play from MS and tweak it a bit, then release it as the 797.
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lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.
In Loving Memory
1787 - 2008 |
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BoneKracker
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Joined: 14 Mar 2006
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Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Naib wrote: | | flying still is really safe (just when things go wrong bam... eg a jumbo takes out 200ppl not just 4 in one car)... |
I wouldn't characterize flying a helicopter at low altitude in fog as "really safe".
It's about as safe as standing atop a fuel truck with an explosive vest on while speeding through town in the middle of an icy blizzard and power blackout with your lights off and an intoxicated, legally blind driver behind the wheel.
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richk449
Guru
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Naib wrote: | | The report is interestingly non-conclusive |
That is because it is only an interim report. |
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Naib
Advocate
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 3930
Location: UK - Birmingham
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| richk449 wrote: | | Naib wrote: | | The report is interestingly non-conclusive |
That is because it is only an interim report. |
I have read enough of these to know how they flow 
even at this stage a targeted root-cause will exist. look at the last major FAA report, the one with the engine fanout on the A380. At this stage they had isolated it to the main fan, the following week RR then identified the exact part and the reason which explained everything
This... "we know it is the battery, we see liquid and gas and ... but no idea what instigated it |
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:27 am Post subject: |
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Ban batteries!
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petrjanda
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Joined: 05 Sep 2003
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Location: Brno, Czech Republic
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | Naib wrote: | | flying still is really safe (just when things go wrong bam... eg a jumbo takes out 200ppl not just 4 in one car)... |
I wouldn't characterize flying a helicopter at low altitude in fog as "really safe".
It's about as safe as standing atop a fuel truck with an explosive vest on while speeding through town in the middle of an icy blizzard and power blackout with your lights off and an intoxicated, legally blind driver behind the wheel. |
Quite frankly, if the weather was that bad he couldn't see a crane, and he wasn't flying IFR(i'd assume so because he was solo and flying under clouds), he should have just put that thing down somewhere or not fly at all.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2267210/London-helicopter-crash-Pilot-Pete-Barnes-warned-weather-TWICE-millionaire-Richard-Caring.html
Theres a picture of the crane in the fog. Quite surprised he hasn't hit anything else. There would have been max 500M visibility which wouldn't be legal even under Special VFR.
Perhaps complacency had set in is mind after his 12,000 hours.
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There is, a not-born, a not-become, a not-made, a not-compounded. If that unborn, not-become, not-made, not-compounded were not, there would be no escape from this here that is born, become, made and compounded. - Gautama Siddharta |
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| petrjanda wrote: | | Quite frankly, if the weather was that bad he couldn't see a crane, and he wasn't flying IFR(i'd assume so because he was solo and flying under clouds), he should have just put that thing down somewhere or not fly at all. |
Exactly. Especially over a major city.
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Naib
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: UK - Birmingham
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| which brings me back to the other point that the pilot did the right thing and asked for a redirect. For some reason the traffic controller denied it. |
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petrjanda
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Joined: 05 Sep 2003
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Location: Brno, Czech Republic
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Naib wrote: | | which brings me back to the other point that the pilot did the right thing and asked for a redirect. For some reason the traffic controller denied it. |
But according to the article he got a permission to land on some helipad in the city (which was his alternate aerodrome I suppose).
Unfortunately it happens so often in aviation that pilot doesn't have the time to plan properly but instead relies on the fact that weather " looks OK from here". Lot of people died this way.
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There is, a not-born, a not-become, a not-made, a not-compounded. If that unborn, not-become, not-made, not-compounded were not, there would be no escape from this here that is born, become, made and compounded. - Gautama Siddharta |
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petrjanda
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Joined: 05 Sep 2003
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Location: Brno, Czech Republic
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | petrjanda wrote: | | Quite frankly, if the weather was that bad he couldn't see a crane, and he wasn't flying IFR(i'd assume so because he was solo and flying under clouds), he should have just put that thing down somewhere or not fly at all. |
Exactly. Especially over a major city. |
But it's still odd, even in city one usually has plenty of space to land a helicopter. Agusta 109 is not a massive chopper, and due to stress of weather you can pretty much land anywhere you want - a park, a football field, someone's backyard etc, but then he would have to explain to the relevant aviation authority why he took off for starters. Instead he kept pushing on. I really do think that he suffered the invincibility syndrome some pilots with lot of hours have.
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There is, a not-born, a not-become, a not-made, a not-compounded. If that unborn, not-become, not-made, not-compounded were not, there would be no escape from this here that is born, become, made and compounded. - Gautama Siddharta |
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Bigun
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Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 1949
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| notageek wrote: | | (Not trying to hijack.) |
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notageek
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 78
Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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thread. I meant thread.
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What looks like a cat, flies like a bat, brays like a donkey, and plays like a monkey? |
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BoneKracker
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Joined: 14 Mar 2006
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Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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The answer is simple: ban private helicopters. They're like assault rifles: nobody really needs one, and only the Government can be trusted with them (they never crash helicopters or shoot people with assault rifles).
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Oldthinkers unbellyfeel INGSOC.
-- Headline of a document on Winston Smith's terminal in his cubicle at the Ministry of Truth, seen briefly in the background in one scene of the movie rendition of Nineteen Eighty-Four. |
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flysideways
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 145
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| Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:11 am Post subject: |
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| Naib wrote: | | richk449 wrote: | | Naib wrote: | | The report is interestingly non-conclusive |
That is because it is only an interim report. |
I have read enough of these to know how they flow
even at this stage a targeted root-cause will exist. look at the last major FAA report, the one with the engine fanout on the A380. At this stage they had isolated it to the main fan, the following week RR then identified the exact part and the reason which explained everything
This... "we know it is the battery, we see liquid and gas and ... but no idea what instigated it |
There are a lot of airliners that came with Ni-Cads but got retroed to sealed lead acid. Just one supplier of many.
Fires with no close place to land never have good endings. |
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flysideways
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 29 Jan 2005
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| Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:55 am Post subject: |
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