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billium
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

May be the conspiracy is to get people to buy three licences, one OEM win 8, one win7 and win 9 when it comes out see jonnevers above.

I've only paid the MS tax on a laptop with XP (required it though for Simatic S7).
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
What Microsoft offering had been better?

I was referring more to the "for it's time" part. Given the timeline for the development of OS/2 and NT, Microsoft should have had Windows 2000 on the market in 1995, instead of "Windows 95".

Marketing an NT-based operating system to home users in 1995 would have been a bad, bad idea. The DOS base was appropriate for the applications at the time.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
What Microsoft offering had been better?

I was referring more to the "for it's time" part. Given the timeline for the development of OS/2 and NT, Microsoft should have had Windows 2000 on the market in 1995, instead of "Windows 95".

Marketing an NT-based operating system to home users in 1995 would have been a bad, bad idea. The DOS base was appropriate for the applications at the time.

Bah. They could have easily provided emulation for games and stuff. They wanted to maintain vendor lock-in, and they wanted to be able to justify charging corporate customers a stiff premium for the NT-based products.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I'm not mistaken, NT required more hardware (aka, expensive hardware) than was common in desktops. Whether that was genuine or artificial, I don't know.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Bah. They could have easily provided emulation for games and stuff.

Why recreate DOS when you already have it?
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, NT required more hardware (aka, expensive hardware) than was common in desktops. Whether that was genuine or artificial, I don't know.

True. NT had a multi-user system with a far more complete networking stack, among other things.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, I think I'm starting to get the hang of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi8NpwiEuzc&feature=player_detailpage

The <WinKey>+X menu is kick-ass.
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warrens
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My laptop came with Windows 8 pre-installed. I blew that away after two days of pain and installed Gentoo on it. :D
Now I run Windows 7 in Virtual Box, best way to run Windows, for what Windows apps that I need.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shit, that reminds me. I need to get a Gentoo VM going.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
Okay, I think I'm starting to get the hang of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi8NpwiEuzc&feature=player_detailpage

The <WinKey>+X menu is kick-ass.

Looks like fail to me.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
pjp wrote:
If I'm not mistaken, NT required more hardware (aka, expensive hardware) than was common in desktops. Whether that was genuine or artificial, I don't know.

True. NT had a multi-user system with a far more complete networking stack, among other things.

It needed a little more RAM than a typical desktop of the time. That's about it.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
It needed a little more RAM than a typical desktop of the time. That's about it.

So you think they should've gone after higher RAM requirements plus the overhead of an emulation layer? This is stupid and you know it. I remember people complaining about Windows 95's system requirements as they were.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
It needed a little more RAM than a typical desktop of the time. That's about it.

So you think they should've gone after higher RAM requirements plus the overhead of an emulation layer? This is stupid and you know it. I remember people complaining about Windows 95's system requirements as they were.

It all depends on your perspective.

From Microsoft's business perspective, yeah, leaping ahead might well have been stupid.

From the perspective of how great an operating system Windows 2000 was "for its time", the truth is that Windows 2000 was a great operating system for 1995, that didn't come out until years later. It was pretty much nothing more than Windows NT with a Windows 95 GUI on top and a lot of good shit turned off.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"NT with a 95 GUI" was Windows NT 4, which came out in 1997. 2000 had a redone GUI was was later shipped with ME.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
"NT with a 95 GUI" was Windows NT 4, which came out in 1997. 2000 had a redone GUI was was later shipped with ME.

It was still basically the same thing: NT with some features crippled, a dummied-down UI, and marketed as a desktop OS. Technologically, they could have done it five years earlier, obviating the vagaries and limitations of DOS.

They also could have implemented a decent bootloader way back then too, like Apple and IBM did (OpenFirmware).

For business reasons, ,they have been very careful to drag along their entourage of locked-in users, and keep them locked-in.
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jonnevers
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
For business reasons, ,they have been very careful to drag along their entourage of locked-in users, and keep them locked-in.

Window 8's SecureBoot :lol:
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pjp
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2000 was also the first real version of server suitable (enough drivers) for home use. IIRC, it was also the first version where playing games was reportedly decent / possible.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonnevers wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
For business reasons, ,they have been very careful to drag along their entourage of locked-in users, and keep them locked-in.

Window 8's SecureBoot :lol:

Yeah, I wonder what Microshaft fanboi swartzendruber has to say about that? :P
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audiodef
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
Always remember that every other windows OS is complete and utter crap.

Windows 3.1 okay
Windows 95 crap
Windows 98 okay
Windows ME utter crap
Windows XP okay
Windows Vista crap
Windows 7 okay
windows 8 crap


This is how I see it:

Windows 3.wonk
Windows 9-to-5
Windows 98 bugs-per-hour
Windows ME-OH-MY
Windows Xtreme Problems
Windows Vista of Pain & Suffering
Windows 7th Circle of Hell
Windows 8-Is-Enough
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