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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:20 pm    Post subject: Eurozone Unemployment Reaches All-Time High Reply with quote

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The unemployment rate across the eurozone hit a new all-time high of 11.8% in November, official figures have shown.

This is a slight rise on 11.7% for the 17-nation region in October. The rate for the European Union as a whole in November was unchanged at 10.7%.

Spain, which is mired in deep recession, again recorded the highest unemployment rate, coming in at 26.6%.

More than 26 million people are now unemployed across the EU.

For the eurozone, the number of people without work reached 18.8 million said Eurostat, the official European statistics agency said.

Greece had the second-highest unemployment rate in November, at 20%.

The youth unemployment rate was 24.4% in the eurozone, and 23.7% in the wider European Union. Youth unemployment - among people under 25 - was highest in Greece (57.6%), followed by Spain (56.5%).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20943292
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More welfare now! That will fix the problem.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Argentina's a good example too. They get "free" healthcare, everybody is taken care of, etc. The result? More "gimme, gimee, gimee!" behavior. Lately, every year around Christmas, the people take to the streets and blockade supermarkets, entirely preventing business from being conducted, demanding that everybody be given free food for those two months. (I may not have the details straight on this, but something like that is going on.)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
The result? More "gimme, gimee, gimee!" behavior.


I know they're after the Falklands. Again.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know what it is what Labour/left leaning in general - the answer always seems
to be spend, don't matter if you haven't got the money, spend anyway.

I remember Gordon Brown, one of his last interviews as PM, the gist of the whole session
was 'don't cut spending. Yet' - this is the UK with our debit. Nutty.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
More welfare now! That will fix the problem.

We got a better solution, we did put a charging bull in front of the Amsterdam stock exchange ....

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-05/di-modica-s-bull-statue-placed-in-front-of-amsterdam-exchange.html

BTW analysts are expecting 2013 to be a year of economic boom again ...

And at a late December meeting it was agreed that hidden subsides to public companies aka KfW in Germany are legitimate under the EU framework and do not increase (official) public debt figures. So we can also expect a 'stimulus' package in various EU countries.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Argentina's a good example too. They get "free" healthcare, everybody is taken care of, etc. The result? More "gimme, gimee, gimee!" behavior. Lately, every year around Christmas, the people take to the streets and blockade supermarkets, entirely preventing business from being conducted, demanding that everybody be given free food for those two months. (I may not have the details straight on this, but something like that is going on.)

What makes this a 'good example'? The fact that it supports your point? Because thats all I see so far.

John-Boy wrote:
I don't know what it is what Labour/left leaning in general - the answer always seems
to be spend, don't matter if you haven't got the money, spend anyway.

…and the conservative answer generally is …?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr.Willy wrote:
…and the conservative answer generally is …?


Tighten belt. Put sane policies in re:encouraging growth - at least don't tax the bejesus
out of wealth generators.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Eurozone Unemployment Reaches All-Time High Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Quote:
The unemployment rate across the eurozone hit a new all-time high of 11.8% in November, official figures have shown.

This is a slight rise on 11.7% for the 17-nation region in October. The rate for the European Union as a whole in November was unchanged at 10.7%.

Spain, which is mired in deep recession, again recorded the highest unemployment rate, coming in at 26.6%.

More than 26 million people are now unemployed across the EU.

For the eurozone, the number of people without work reached 18.8 million said Eurostat, the official European statistics agency said.

Greece had the second-highest unemployment rate in November, at 20%.

The youth unemployment rate was 24.4% in the eurozone, and 23.7% in the wider European Union. Youth unemployment - among people under 25 - was highest in Greece (57.6%), followed by Spain (56.5%).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20943292


Whole Euro-Zone show wrong figures, many people work in other countries and support their families at home. Also people travel a lot between countries. I know of a tramp, once met in a train, he goes south every winter for begging...
I don't know the solution but slums and a strong police force cannot be the answer? :roll:
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr.Willy wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Argentina's a good example too. They get "free" healthcare, everybody is taken care of, etc. The result? More "gimme, gimee, gimee!" behavior. Lately, every year around Christmas, the people take to the streets and blockade supermarkets, entirely preventing business from being conducted, demanding that everybody be given free food for those two months. (I may not have the details straight on this, but something like that is going on.)

What makes this a 'good example'? The fact that it supports your point?

Precisely. That's what "example" means, in case you were unclear on that. :?
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John-Boy wrote:
Dr.Willy wrote:
…and the conservative answer generally is …?


Tighten belt. Put sane policies in re:encouraging growth - at least don't tax the bejesus
out of wealth generators.

Ruthlessly root out waste in government and the public sector, and unrelentingly press for increased efficiency. You know, stuff that privately-held firms do as a matter of routine but non profit-seeking entities would rather not bother with because it's unpleasant, the money's "free" anyway, and frankly, who gives a damn?

Our government probably wastes 25 - 30% of its funding, based on my personal observations as a consultant. They could probably reap half of that, if they tried. But it's like body fat: you have to keep at it. Every time you stop trying, you get fat again. Every time Democrats get control of anything, waste is the last thing they're worried about, because they use spending as a measure of success rather than understanding they equate to taxes and debt, and don't see it as the giant, sea-lion-sized cartoid-artery-sucking leech they are on the neck of the economy.

Some spending is necessary. Waste is not beneficial, and neither is fraud or corruption.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Precisely. That's what "example" means, in case you were unclear on that. :?

Well it might be a crappy one, but I can agree that it is, in fact, an example.

BoneKracker wrote:
Ruthlessly root out waste in government and the public sector, and unrelentingly press for increased efficiency. You know, stuff that privately-held firms do as a matter of routine but non profit-seeking entities would rather not bother with because it's unpleasant, the money's "free" anyway, and frankly, who gives a damn?

Our government probably wastes 25 - 30% of its funding, based on my personal observations as a consultant. They could probably reap half of that, if they tried. But it's like body fat: you have to keep at it. Every time you stop trying, you get fat again. Every time Democrats get control of anything, waste is the last thing they're worried about, because they use spending as a measure of success rather than understanding they equate to taxes and debt, and don't see it as the giant, sea-lion-sized cartoid-artery-sucking leech they are on the neck of the economy.

Ahh yes, the epic struggle of the righteous against the wicked.
What a glorious world we could live in if it wasn't for the socialists around the world.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr.Willy wrote:

What a glorious world we could live in if it wasn't for the socialists around the world.



Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr.Willy wrote:
Ahh yes, the epic struggle of the righteous against the wicked.
What a glorious world we could live in if it wasn't for the socialists around the world.
You're welcome to it, I'd just like to get rid of the mess it is causing here.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr.Willy wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Precisely. That's what "example" means, in case you were unclear on that. :?

Well it might be a crappy one, but I can agree that it is, in fact, an example.

BoneKracker wrote:
Ruthlessly root out waste in government and the public sector, and unrelentingly press for increased efficiency. You know, stuff that privately-held firms do as a matter of routine but non profit-seeking entities would rather not bother with because it's unpleasant, the money's "free" anyway, and frankly, who gives a damn?

Our government probably wastes 25 - 30% of its funding, based on my personal observations as a consultant. They could probably reap half of that, if they tried. But it's like body fat: you have to keep at it. Every time you stop trying, you get fat again. Every time Democrats get control of anything, waste is the last thing they're worried about, because they use spending as a measure of success rather than understanding they equate to taxes and debt, and don't see it as the giant, sea-lion-sized cartoid-artery-sucking leech they are on the neck of the economy.

Ahh yes, the epic struggle of the righteous against the wicked.
What a glorious world we could live in if it wasn't for the socialists around the world.

That's a strawman. You have repeatedly heard me say that a mixture of socialism and capitalism are necessary, along with an overriding effort to prevent either from systematically eroding and violating the rights of individuals.

There is such a thing as "too socialist", however, and the public education systems of Europe have spend the last half-century telling Europe's children otherwise -- that socialism is some kind of Garden of Eden, rather than an economic philosophy from which some necessary evils can be tolerated (despite the fact that they reduce overall economic prosperity and lead to systematic violation of individual rights) in order to establish a temporary safety net for the unfortunate and an acceptable minimum standard of living for the incapable.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
That's a strawman.

I'm happy to see that you at least put some thought into other peoples' posts.

BoneKracker wrote:
There is such a thing as "too socialist", however, and the public education systems of Europe have spend the last half-century telling Europe's children otherwise -- that socialism is some kind of Garden of Eden, rather than an economic philosophy from which some necessary evils can be tolerated (despite the fact that they reduce overall economic prosperity and lead to systematic violation of individual rights) in order to establish a temporary safety net for the unfortunate and an acceptable minimum standard of living for the incapable.

Well lets see.
There is such a thing as "too socialist". You will find that there is a "too much" version of any political ideology.
Now Europe is "too socialist". Based on what observations? Relative to which fix-point?
European states have a lot of dept and high unemployment rates. So does the US. Too much socialism everywhere?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr.Willy wrote:
European states have a lot of dept and high unemployment rates. So does the US. Too much socialism everywhere?

Congratulations! You just stumbled into a truism.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
Dr.Willy wrote:
European states have a lot of dept and high unemployment rates. So does the US. Too much socialism everywhere?

Congratulations! You just stumbled into a truism.


two european economies are doing pretty well

country 1

deficit/surplus: -2%
debt: 40% GDP
unemployment: 6%

country 2

deficit/surplus: +0.1%
debt: 40% GDP
unemployment: 7.5%

who are these rocksters? denmark and sweden.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Old School wrote:
Dr.Willy wrote:
European states have a lot of dept and high unemployment rates. So does the US. Too much socialism everywhere?

Congratulations! You just stumbled into a truism.


two european economies are doing pretty well

country 1

deficit/surplus: -2%
debt: 40% GDP
unemployment: 6%

country 2

deficit/surplus: +0.1%
debt: 40% GDP
unemployment: 7.5%

who are these rocksters? denmark and sweden.

With a homogeneous population less than a major US city.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Breaking: Old School supporting socialism in all major US cities.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr.Willy wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
That's a strawman.

I'm happy to see that you at least put some thought into other peoples' posts.

I did, as obviously demonstrated in the rest of that paragraph, which you redacted from your quote (you know, the part where I explained why it was a strawman).

Dr.Willy wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
There is such a thing as "too socialist", however, and the public education systems of Europe have spend the last half-century telling Europe's children otherwise -- that socialism is some kind of Garden of Eden, rather than an economic philosophy from which some necessary evils can be tolerated (despite the fact that they reduce overall economic prosperity and lead to systematic violation of individual rights) in order to establish a temporary safety net for the unfortunate and an acceptable minimum standard of living for the incapable.

Well lets see.
There is such a thing as "too socialist". You will find that there is a "too much" version of any political ideology.
Now Europe is "too socialist". Based on what observations? Relative to which fix-point?

All explained above. Did you just stop reading and knee-jerk when you got to the words "too socialist"?

Dr.Willy wrote:
European states have a lot of dept and high unemployment rates. So does the US. Too much socialism everywhere?

Here's the equivalent of your logic: rats stink, and rats are rodents; the moldy cheese in my refrigerator stinks too, therefore rodents live in my refrigerator!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Dr.Willy wrote:
European states have a lot of dept and high unemployment rates. So does the US. Too much socialism everywhere?

Here's the equivalent of your logic: rats stink, and rats are rodents; the moldy cheese in my refrigerator stinks too, therefore rodents live in my refrigerator!

More like 1=1. There's little difference worth talking about between the US and the EU, in both economic properties and circumstance.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
BTW analysts are expecting 2013 to be a year of economic boom again ...

Followed by a 2 year bust, making this 'boom', if there will actually be one at all, which seems unlikely, a futile surge.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

erm67 wrote:
Muso wrote:
More welfare now! That will fix the problem.

We got a better solution, we did put a charging bull in front of the Amsterdam stock exchange ....

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-05/di-modica-s-bull-statue-placed-in-front-of-amsterdam-exchange.html

BTW analysts are expecting 2013 to be a year of economic boom again ...

And at a late December meeting it was agreed that hidden subsides to public companies aka KfW in Germany are legitimate under the EU framework and do not increase (official) public debt figures. So we can also expect a 'stimulus' package in various EU countries.


Clearly there is not enough wealth redistribution, punitive taxation, or economic magic.

Get your overlords to steal more, and reward the pointless.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aidanjt wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Dr.Willy wrote:
European states have a lot of dept and high unemployment rates. So does the US. Too much socialism everywhere?

Here's the equivalent of your logic: rats stink, and rats are rodents; the moldy cheese in my refrigerator stinks too, therefore rodents live in my refrigerator!

More like 1=1. There's little difference worth talking about between the US and the EU, in both economic properties and circumstance.

If so, then why are Europeans always criticizing the U.S. and acting like they are superior?
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