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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:57 pm    Post subject: Idea for Learning Dvorak Reply with quote

I set Android to use it as a keyboard. It's really awkward.
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Dr.Willy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting idea, however I think that placing the important letters next to each other is actually a disadvantage on those touch-keyboards.
Still, for learning purposes this might be good.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can type fairly well in Dvorak now, as well as QWERTY.

Here's what I found that works for me:

* For the first week or two, use typing lessons for Dvorak for twenty minutes per day. It's going to take a while to retrain your muscle movements.
* DO NOT look at the keyboard. You'll learn faster by training your muscle movements.
* After the first couple weeks, the hardest bit is going to come in: switching fulltime to Dvorak. Pick a period of time where you don't have to do a whole lot of typing. It's going to be slow, cumbersome, and really frustrating at times. STICK WITH DVORAK no matter how frustrating it is.
* After a couple months, which is where I'm at now, you'll start to realize how much the world revolves around QWERTY and will have to switch to it every once in a while. Start randomly switching between Dvorak and QWERTY. Train your muscle movements to learn how to switch between them on the fly. This is where I'm at right now.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mardok45 wrote:
After a couple months, which is where I'm at now, you'll start to realize how much the world revolves around QWERTY and will have to switch to it every once in a while. Start randomly switching between Dvorak and QWERTY. Train your muscle movements to learn how to switch between them on the fly. This is where I'm at right now.

Really? What do you need QWERTY for?
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm already switched over. Damnit this is slow.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr.Willy wrote:
Mardok45 wrote:
After a couple months, which is where I'm at now, you'll start to realize how much the world revolves around QWERTY and will have to switch to it every once in a while. Start randomly switching between Dvorak and QWERTY. Train your muscle movements to learn how to switch between them on the fly. This is where I'm at right now.

Really? What do you need QWERTY for?


A ton of games don't account for keyboard layouts, some curses programs that require user interaction will require you to switch layouts unless you're willing to relearn how to scroll or rebind your keyboard shortcuts (which is what I did with vim). CTRL-X/C/V in some GUI's might account for the new layout and some might not.

Tons of little things like that.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
I'm already switched over. Damnit this is slow.
It took me roughly a month to get decent at typing. I imagine it will take over a year to get up to speed with QWERTY.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm trying to keep things in rhythm. I'm also keeping my palms off the palm rest. Still took awhile to type this.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
I'm already switched over. Damnit this is slow.

When I did a hard-switch to neo, I found programming was a good excercise.
It doesn't slow you down all that much because it isn't that much typing anyways plus you get to type the languages keywords over and over again which helps memorizing the keys.
…stay away from chats.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chats are annoying, but I'm slowly picking this up. Forums seem to be a good exercise.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.powertyping.com/dvorak/typing.html
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the point of putting a Dvorak keyboard layout on Android. You're not typing normally on Android to begin with (i.e., using both hands, all fingers, etc.), are you? Seems to me you're just making life difficult for yourself unnecessarily, unless you're already accustomed to Dvorak on your other keyboards.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a screenshot from my phone:

https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B_LuaJPkVmovUFZGYnh6X1BVWU0
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the blank Das Keyboard. I should try this out....
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerwylie wrote:
I have the blank Das Keyboard. I should try this out....

You'll put your eye out.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
What's the point of putting a Dvorak keyboard layout on Android. You're not typing normally on Android to begin with (i.e., using both hands, all fingers, etc.), are you? Seems to me you're just making life difficult for yourself unnecessarily, unless you're already accustomed to Dvorak on your other keyboards.

Whats the point? I'd say its the easiest way to learn the button positions. Of course it won't teach you how to touch type dvorak, but it's an easier start than using a Dvorak layout underneath a QWERTY-labeled keyboard and playing the where-the-fuck-is-the-key game.

tylerwylie wrote:
I have the blank Das Keyboard. I should try this out....

I've always wondered: Is that thing worth the money?
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energyman76b
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr.Willy wrote:
Mardok45 wrote:
After a couple months, which is where I'm at now, you'll start to realize how much the world revolves around QWERTY and will have to switch to it every once in a while. Start randomly switching between Dvorak and QWERTY. Train your muscle movements to learn how to switch between them on the fly. This is where I'm at right now.

Really? What do you need QWERTY for?


well, it is the better layout.

Seriously, MONTH for learning dvorak? Learning QWERTY takes a couple of hours.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
Dr.Willy wrote:
Mardok45 wrote:
After a couple months, which is where I'm at now, you'll start to realize how much the world revolves around QWERTY and will have to switch to it every once in a while. Start randomly switching between Dvorak and QWERTY. Train your muscle movements to learn how to switch between them on the fly. This is where I'm at right now.

Really? What do you need QWERTY for?


well, it is the better layout.

Seriously, MONTH for learning dvorak? Learning QWERTY takes a couple of hours.
Seriously, HOURS for learning qwerty? Learning COLEMAK takes a couple of minutes. :twisted:
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ppurka wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
Dr.Willy wrote:
Mardok45 wrote:
After a couple months, which is where I'm at now, you'll start to realize how much the world revolves around QWERTY and will have to switch to it every once in a while. Start randomly switching between Dvorak and QWERTY. Train your muscle movements to learn how to switch between them on the fly. This is where I'm at right now.

Really? What do you need QWERTY for?


well, it is the better layout.

Seriously, MONTH for learning dvorak? Learning QWERTY takes a couple of hours.
Seriously, HOURS for learning qwerty? Learning COLEMAK takes a couple of minutes. :twisted:


well, unlike DVORAK, COLEMAK IS indeed a good layout made to make typing easier.

DVORAK has been shown to be utter shite. I am really worried that people still fall for this crap layout.
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Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just glad I don't work typesetting Chinese. Some of those keyboards are insane.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
Seriously, MONTH for learning dvorak? Learning QWERTY takes a couple of hours.

People who learn QWERTY don't have to unlearn another layout first. Plus noone really learns a keyboard layout 8h a day. Which is how you get to months.

energyman76b wrote:
DVORAK has been shown to be utter shite. I am really worried that people still fall for this crap layout.

I don't care about dvorak but even a random distribution of the keys might yield better results than QWERTY.
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energyman76b
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

really? so when QWERTY was introduced - why was it chosen instead of all the other layouts? And there were a lot in the late 19th century with typing contests and everything. And for some magical reason QWERTY prevailed. Without 'market dominance' - just because it was better.

DVORAK on the other hand has nothing to show. Except two studies manufactured by Dvorak and one which had to be tuned in DVORAK's favour after it failed to produce the 'correct' outcome.
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Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
really? so when QWERTY was introduced - why was it chosen instead of all the other layouts? And there were a lot in the late 19th century with typing contests and everything. And for some magical reason QWERTY prevailed. Without 'market dominance' - just because it was better.

DVORAK on the other hand has nothing to show. Except two studies manufactured by Dvorak and one which had to be tuned in DVORAK's favour after it failed to produce the 'correct' outcome.

It wasn't chosen, it was the layout of THE typewriter. The layout itself evolved from an alphabetical ordering (partially still present on the home row: d fgh jkl) with rearrangements to avoid the keys from jamming.

I don't know why or how dvorak was developed. But the colemak site has a calculator for comparison.
You want to have low values for distance, same hand/finger and distribution that is home-row > top-row > bottom-row.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wrong. It was just one layout among MANY OTHERS. There was no 'the' typewriter. There was healthy competition with lots of typing contests. And QWERTY came out as the winner.
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Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you say so.
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