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Dr.Willy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:04 am    Post subject: Re: 27 dead at primary school Reply with quote

LD wrote:
It's one thing to have a gun, or any weapon, and using it in self defense or comision of a crime against other ARMED persons.

Where in the name of all that is holy, good, and pure does someone get the thought of using anything on kids this young?!

You mean because kids are innocent? Fuck that; I mean, like the guy cares.
Why do you care if the other guy is an armed person? So that he has the ability to fight back? So if you end up killing him that makes it morally more justified?

patrix_neo wrote:
Why do I feel numb?

Because you're a manipulatable person who takes emotional input from mass media?
Every day children get killed. But because you didn't know about it you didn't feel bad. Now you heard about it; and you felt really connected to them; now you feel numb. I am really sorry for you. I'm sure this incident had a big impact on your life.

I'm glad that at least wswartzendruber is onto the things that really matter here.
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Voltago
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LD wrote:
What about the responsibility to ensure the safety of the average citizen from those who, due to mental disease or defect, are a danger to themselves and others?

Well obviously that must be considered, but that is a whole different matter than punishment. And calling for wholesale locking-up of mentally ill people and justify it with one's own right to freedom and well-being seems somewhat callous. Fancy that people sometimes seem so adamant to defend their own rights (to bear arms, just to name an arbitrary example), but are rather quick to sacrifice those of others in the name of public safety. Nota bene I'm not disagreeing that there are dangerous, disturbed people that need to be institutionalized for their own safety and that of others, I'm just saying that one should think a moment or two before calling for rounding up the loonies, locking them up and throwing away the key.

But on another note, I get the impression that usually one hears after those shootings that the shooter was some introverted guy that nobody thought capable of doing such a thing, rather than an aggressive maniac with a history of violence (But then again, this might just be the reaction you get from acquaintances and neighbours who don't want to be asked uncomfortable questions like 'So why didn't you do something?'), so early identification of possbile amok shooters may be inherently difficult.
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big dave
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3s73vf/
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Voltago
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big dave wrote:
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3s73vf/

http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/437077-trolling
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big dave
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voltago wrote:
big dave wrote:
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3s73vf/

http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/437077-trolling

you're just pissed because it's true.

also, http://www.bradycampaign.org/stategunlaws/scorecard/CT connecticut = 5th worst state for gun control... as in, it's the 5th most restrictive state on gun rights according to the brady campaign. i'm glad all that gun control has helped.
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Voltago
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big dave wrote:
Voltago wrote:
big dave wrote:
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3s73vf/

http://knowyourmeme.com/photos/437077-trolling

you're just pissed because it's true.

Because what is true? That stupid-as-shit image macro of yours? Yeah right. :lol:


Last edited by Voltago on Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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big dave
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voltago wrote:
people sometimes seem so adamant to defend their own rights (to bear arms, just to name an arbitrary example), but are rather quick to sacrifice those of others in the name of public safety.


i fail to see how defending everyone's right that's fundamentally guaranteed by the second amendment is "sacrificing [the rights] of others." please explain that.
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Voltago
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big dave wrote:
Voltago wrote:
people sometimes seem so adamant to defend their own rights (to bear arms, just to name an arbitrary example), but are rather quick to sacrifice those of others in the name of public safety.


i fail to see how defending everyone's right that's fundamentally guaranteed by the second amendment is "sacrificing [the rights] of others." please explain that.

It isn't. Read the thread, then you might be able to suss it out, genius.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LD wrote:
Is gun control the right discussion to be having? What other issues does this bring up?
What is causing it. The benefit to not executing those who don't kill themselves is to figure out what went wrong in the wiring. I have no problem with licensing and sane gun control, but it doesn't address the problem.


big dave wrote:
this happened in connecticut, which leans closer to gun control than gun rights. the movie theatre massacre happened in colorado, which is also in the same boat.
What about CO leans toward gun control than gun rights? We've got concealed carry and "make my day." You may be right, I'm just curious what makes you think so. Also, after the movie theater incident, there were typical liberal outcries for more gun control. The governor (a lib) thinks it would be appropriate for next congress to take up the issue (a reasonable "cooling off" period is how I interpret that, but who knows).
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dmitchell
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barack Obama wrote:
“The majority of those who died today are children. Beautiful little kids between the ages of 5 and 10-years-old,” he said. “They had their entire lives ahead of them. Birthdays, graduations, weddings, kids of their own.”

Do I even need to say it?
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently his parents divorced four years ago when he was 16. Which probably means a shitty home for many years before. He shoots his mother in the face; then he goes out to destroy the things she cared about. This is a person with serious family problems.
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b0nafide
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crazy person weighing in on this one.

I think it takes a particularly sadistic and cowardly person to carry out such acts. Most insane people self-harm and/or just have severe problems with addiction and homelessness. Please don't propagate the stigma of mental illness being associated with violence. Monsters like Breivik are apparently not insane.
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sikpuppy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There seems to be some interesting themes here in this thread.

One concerns the sound witnessed while a particular gun is mowing children down. It seems important in this case to identify what types of rapid bullet ejection machines are in use in this case. To be fair, when someone says a kid was squashed under a vehicle I always immediately think "I wonder what type of vehicle crushed the life out of the child, what options the owner had purchased, what sound system was preferred by the driver and whether the driver had big tits and a snatch that smelt of strawberries."
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LD wrote:
What happens inside a persons mind or soul that makes going into an elementary school and using ANY level of fire power on kids sound like anything close to something to do? How the Hell does this end up sounding like anything other then an atrocity in the mind of the shooter? It's one thing to have a gun, or any weapon, and using it in self defense or comision of a crime against other ARMED persons.

Where in the name of all that is holy, good, and pure does someone get the thought of using anything on kids this young?!

The days of prime time fame following the American media freak show.
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genstorm
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

big dave wrote:
genstorm wrote:
Speaking of craziness - notice how the south is considerably more gun violent?

this happened in connecticut, which leans closer to gun control than gun rights. the movie theatre massacre happened in colorado, which is also in the same boat.

As said, I am perfectly aware of that. Read the link I provided.

It seems all the weapons were legally registered on the mother...

Mike Huckabee wrote:
We ask why there is violence in our schools, but we’ve systematically removed God from our schools. Should we be so surprised that schools would become a place of carnage because we’ve made it a palce where we don’t want to talk about eternity, life, what responsibility means, accountability?

for sure, this would not have happened had Huckabee been elected president years ago... :roll:

Quote:
[American Family Association spokesman] Bryan Fischer said that God could have protected the victims of this massacre, but didn't because "God is not going to go where he is not wanted" and so if school administrators really want to protect students, they will start every school day with prayer.

speaking of crazy people... :roll:
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aidanjt
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, because God is all about protecting his followers, never been a congregation which has been harmed when people have flipped their nut ever.. nope... ummm...

See what I mean about the freak show?
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/nation/us-mass-shootings-2012/?hpid=z3

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rd8ampnltlsnzf6/Photo%2015-12-2012%2008%2000%2038.jpg
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cue pitchforks and flaming torches.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/12/14/1337551/michigan-guns-classroom/?mobile=nc

Allowing concealed weapons in schools is something I support. Its going to be interesting in the coming weeks if the Gov veto's this
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sikpuppy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

eeyrjmr wrote:
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/12/14/1337551/michigan-guns-classroom/?mobile=nc

Allowing concealed weapons in schools is something I support. Its going to be interesting in the coming weeks if the Gov veto's this

You do? Really? Fucking hell. That's insane.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sikpuppy wrote:
eeyrjmr wrote:
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/12/14/1337551/michigan-guns-classroom/?mobile=nc

Allowing concealed weapons in schools is something I support. Its going to be interesting in the coming weeks if the Gov veto's this

You do? Really? Fucking hell. That's insane.


Answer me this. Accepting the fact that there is a right to bear arms and to legally aquire a gun is only slightly harder than getting a drivers license, if a select number of teachers were armed at the school in Conn, how many murders would have occured?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-WBRqBzLdjDI/UMwAk8jyIuI/AAAAAAAAEEc/phXp_lrahDU/s423/n.jpg
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big dave
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rd8ampnltlsnzf6/Photo%2015-12-2012%2008%2000%2038.jpg

I see your list of zero tyrants, and raise you george III, muammar gaddafi, saddam hussein, and many more.
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notageek
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:49 pm    Post subject: The profile of the guy who did it Reply with quote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20738732

Quote:
Former classmates of Adam Lanza, 20, the man identified by US media as the gunman in the Sandy Hook School killings, do not remember much about him.

They talk of a boy who dressed smartly and worked hard, but who barely said a word during his time at school.

Police are investigating whether he suffered from a personality disorder.

He appears to have shunned the limelight. US media report that there was no photograph of him in his high school yearbook of 2010. "Camera shy" was the comment by his entry.

He apparently had no Facebook page and his electronic footprint was minimal.

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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I heard that his father was a Kindergarten teacher at the school he attacked. Maybe he felt his father devoted all his attention to other children and lashed out at that to strike back at his father. Obviously, to take such an action based on those feelings, he must have had something else going on, probably multiple problems (who knows: victim of child abuse or bullying resulting in neuroses, rejection by father because of homosexuality or gender identity dysphoria, divorced parents, substance abuse problems, dumped by significant other, failing college, unemployment, etc.). Or maybe he just played way too much FPS.

Edit: now I've read his father is a VP at GE, and his mother was a substitute teacher at the school.
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Last edited by Bones McCracker on Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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