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McGruff
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:50 am    Post subject: Tax The Rich Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6ZsXrzF8Cc&feature=youtu.be
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice myth, except it's completely at odds with the facts. Over the past century, government spending in the U.S. has risen steadily from 7% of GDP to 40% of GDP (the main exception being during WWII, when Americans gave up everything they had (right down to the point of collecting the tin foil wrappers from chewing gum) to come bail your sorry asses out).

"Oh, noes! The Nation is falling! Gubbamint don't have enough monies to spend because the rich don't wanna hand over half of what dey earn!!" What a load of Orwellian propaganda bullshit. Government has more money to spend than it ever has, and far more than it needs.

The problem is not that taxes need to be raised. The problem is that the government spends too much and wastes money hand over fist. Meanwhile, it's like a 60-pound leach hanging off the neck of the economy.

The argument that the rich aren't paying their fair share is nothing but populist demagoguery, calculated to lure the ignorant masses into not only allowing, but stampeding to support, tax hikes.

Wake up and smell the Big Brother, idiots. Oh, and speaking of which, we have a new law as of today that "Black Boxes" meeting a host of new law enforcement, national security, and other Big Brother requirements must be in all new cars starting next year. We've had black boxes, useful in reconstructing the last minute or so before a crash, for a long time, but now they're going to be useful in determining anyone's present whereabouts, where they've been for the past year or more, and will be remotely accessible (only if necessary, of course :roll: ).
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big dave
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i like how the vid says one of the major problems is that the politicians have been bought.

i'm glad we're listening to the guy whose campaign raised and spent well over a billion dollars on his election.
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dmitchell
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vile. And these are the same people educating your children (in California).
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm waiting for Jefferson State to re-emerge.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take everything away from the rich, and still won't be enough. And you just have to change the definition of rich. Wash, rinse, repeat.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go Galt.


Refuse to participate, let the state crumble.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
I'm waiting for Jefferson State to re-emerge.


Ditto
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
I'm waiting for Jefferson State to re-emerge.

Few people know this, but the U.S. almost had a state named Franklin, by way of secession from what was, I think, North Carolina at the time, but it never got recognized. Instead it ended up part of Tennessee when it formed, with the would-be governor of Franklin becoming Tenessee's first governor. I imagine the history is there if one searches.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefferson State? Is that excessive debt and slave labor?

And to get the ball rolling, it is no longer liberal or progressive. They are Royalists! Jefferson later associated Hamilton and the Federalists with "Royalism," and said the "Hamiltonians were panting after ... crowns, coronets and mitres."
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefferson State was a move to separate southern Oregon and northern California into its own state.
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Old School
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never be allowed to happen.

Quote:
Article IV
Section. 3.
New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.


Notice that the State of West Virginia is totally illegal.
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big dave
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how much bullshit is the video?

http://taxfoundation.org/article/us-federal-individual-income-tax-rates-history-1913-2011-nominal-and-inflation-adjusted-brackets or http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/Historical_Mariginal_Tax_Rate_for_Highest_and_Lowest_Income_Earners.jpg

inflation adjusted, taxes were only 7% for the superwealthy pre-WWI. taxes shot up to 77% during WWI, and slowly dropped to 25% by 1925. they rose again until 1944 when they were 94%. they dropped in the 60s and then again in the 80s.

this is just federal taxes. state taxes typically eat 10% more. currently, you can deduct some state taxes against your income for purposes federal taxes, but democrats have proposed eliminating that (effectively raising everyone's tax rate up to 10% more).

the government has already proven that everything it touches turns to shit. now mcgruff wants the government to take 80% of everyone's income and turn that into shit too.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
Never be allowed to happen.

Quote:
Article IV
Section. 3.
New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.


Notice that the State of West Virginia is totally illegal.

That wording actually came about as a result of the mysterious State of Franklin situation.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big dave wrote:
how much bullshit is the video?

http://taxfoundation.org/article/us-federal-individual-income-tax-rates-history-1913-2011-nominal-and-inflation-adjusted-brackets or http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/Historical_Mariginal_Tax_Rate_for_Highest_and_Lowest_Income_Earners.jpg

inflation adjusted, taxes were only 7% for the superwealthy pre-WWI. taxes shot up to 77% during WWI, and slowly dropped to 25% by 1925. they rose again until 1944 when they were 94%. they dropped in the 60s and then again in the 80s.

this is just federal taxes. state taxes typically eat 10% more. currently, you can deduct some state taxes against your income for purposes federal taxes, but democrats have proposed eliminating that (effectively raising everyone's tax rate up to 10% more).

the government has already proven that everything it touches turns to shit. now mcgruff wants the government to take 80% of everyone's income and turn that into shit too.

It's populist "pay no attention to that man fucking you in the ass behind the curtain" tactics. Lemmings over the cliff, Charge!!!!
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genstorm
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eat The Rich
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pjp
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
Jefferson State was a move to separate southern Oregon and northern California into its own state.
Ah, OK. I've heard of that. I'd sooner expect to see Texas secede. Or maybe that's just wishful thinking.

Hey, I've got an idea... Blue States, Red States. That'd give us North & South America! :D :lol: :lol: :lol:
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McGruff
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone for social justice...?
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sikpuppy
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

genstorm wrote:
Eat The Rich

Or Eat the rich?
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NotQuiteSane
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
Never be allowed to happen.

Quote:
Article IV
Section. 3.
New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.


Notice that the State of West Virginia is totally illegal.


How does requiring legislative permission lead one to believe it wouldn't be allowed? New mexico, maine and nevada were all formed from existing states or teritories.

What stopped the Jefferson movement back in the 40's was pearl harbor. the people involved decided that the attention of the nation should be on the war, and withdrew their statehood proposal

NQS
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They also quit blocking what would become I-5 with their guns and went home.
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juniper
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Nice myth, except it's completely at odds with the facts. Over the past century, government spending in the U.S. has risen steadily from 7% of GDP to 40% of GDP (the main exception being during WWII, when Americans gave up everything they had (right down to the point of collecting the tin foil wrappers from chewing gum) to come bail your sorry asses out).


yup, that's a big part of the problem. How did it come to this?

Quote:

The problem is not that taxes need to be raised. The problem is that the government spends too much and wastes money hand over fist. Meanwhile, it's like a 60-pound leach hanging off the neck of the economy.


you have a revenue and expenditure problem. the gap is just so big that you are going to have to do both.
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Old School
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NotQuiteSane wrote:
Old School wrote:
Never be allowed to happen.

Quote:
Article IV
Section. 3.
New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.


Notice that the State of West Virginia is totally illegal.


How does requiring legislative permission lead one to believe it wouldn't be allowed? New mexico, maine and nevada were all formed from existing states or teritories.

What stopped the Jefferson movement back in the 40's was pearl harbor. the people involved decided that the attention of the nation should be on the war, and withdrew their statehood proposal

NQS

Do you really think that Sacramento and Salem (let alone Washington D.C.) would allow the State of Jefferson to exist? And a territory is not a state, therefore is not applicable.
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dmitchell
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
Anyone for social justice...?

Is that different from regular justice?
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Old School
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmitchell wrote:
mcgruff wrote:
Anyone for social justice...?

Is that different from regular justice?

Very different, considering that much of social justice is nothing more than theft.
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