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Dr.Willy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like how they have all those mathematical symbols on the first one.
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energyman76b
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
This is like porn for you, isn't it?


like porn? I am confused right now...

LoTeK wrote:
Quote:
that is why men invented this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_cadet_keyboard

where can I buy such a keyboard?


I wish I'd know....
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shadow Skill wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Why would you use a Java-based IDE if you're a python web developer?
Directory navigation. Especially with these MVC frameworks. This can be a bit of a pain with Emacs (Yea the speedbar exists but meh.) I've been meaning to hack Rinari (A minor mode for Rails development.) to get the same functionality for the Laravel PHP framework. The directory structures are almost the same so it should not be too hard to set up for it.

I didn't ask why you aren't using emacs; I asked why you're using a Java-based IDE if you're a Python developer. Ninja (Qt) and PIDA (Gtk+) are Python IDEs which are written in Python. That way you can better hack it, contribute, and influence its direction.
http://ninja-ide.org/
http://pida.co.uk/
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
notageek wrote:
This is like porn for you, isn't it?


like porn? I am confused right now...

LoTeK wrote:
Quote:
that is why men invented this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_cadet_keyboard

where can I buy such a keyboard?


I wish I'd know....

I have one of these somewhere. There's a driver for it in the kernel, too. Maybe I'll get it out and give it a try.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you don't need it anymore, I'll buy it... :)
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Shadow Skill
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Shadow Skill wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Why would you use a Java-based IDE if you're a python web developer?
Directory navigation. Especially with these MVC frameworks. This can be a bit of a pain with Emacs (Yea the speedbar exists but meh.) I've been meaning to hack Rinari (A minor mode for Rails development.) to get the same functionality for the Laravel PHP framework. The directory structures are almost the same so it should not be too hard to set up for it.

I didn't ask why you aren't using emacs; I asked why you're using a Java-based IDE if you're a Python developer. Ninja (Qt) and PIDA (Gtk+) are Python IDEs which are written in Python. That way you can better hack it, contribute, and influence its direction.
http://ninja-ide.org/
http://pida.co.uk/
Oops. :oops: Missed the Java part. That's what I get for replying soon after waking up.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread had great potential for derailment, but sadly it fell back into ranks, and now people are talking about actual editors. Wheres the fun in that? :(
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

woddfellow2 wrote:
A warning: If you want to use the graphical Emacs with the daemon/emacsclient as many do, I recommend compiling it with the lucid toolkit instead of GTK, due to a bug in GTK that makes it unreliable.

My /etc/portage/package.use contains the following:
Code:
app-editors/emacs -gtk

Never had a problem with USE=gtk emacs. Could you elaborate please? I use gtk, not gtk3.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still haven't worked up the courage to do it. Too many bloaty-looking USE flags enabled by default. I'm not sure I can go through with this. Seems like it might have been the original bloatware of computing antiquity.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Why would you use a Java-based IDE if you're a python web developer?


Because I use Aptana Studio

Basically its eclipse modded for python web development.

(It also supports rails)
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just responding with "because" followed by some text does not mean you have answered the question. :P

Also, if you're a Python developer, shouldn't you be using Django and not Rails?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
I still haven't worked up the courage to do it. Too many bloaty-looking USE flags enabled by default. I'm not sure I can go through with this. Seems like it might have been the original bloatware of computing antiquity.

There's difference between bloat - needless features that don't work anyways - and a lot of integrated functionality, using external tools.
When you're interested in functionality (and I presume you are when comparing editors), the KISS principle can be misleading, provided the extra functionality comes from good libs and is well integrated. IMHO using a few external libs/tools with a consistent and useful API is way better than being stuck with some builtin C implementation that cannot do as much and isn't easy to hack.
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Dr.Willy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
I still haven't worked up the courage to do it. Too many bloaty-looking USE flags enabled by default. I'm not sure I can go through with this. Seems like it might have been the original bloatware of computing antiquity.

That's why I'm currently trying Textadept. Same basic idea (editor controllable/extensible with scripting language) without the bloat.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Just responding with "because" followed by some text does not mean you have answered the question. :P

Also, if you're a Python developer, shouldn't you be using Django and not Rails?


Did you follow the link?

Basically aptana is based off of eclipse, but specifically designed for web developers, be it python or ruby based.

I actually use Pyramid (as you asked).
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

smartass wrote:
woddfellow2 wrote:
A warning: If you want to use the graphical Emacs with the daemon/emacsclient as many do, I recommend compiling it with the lucid toolkit instead of GTK, due to a bug in GTK that makes it unreliable.

My /etc/portage/package.use contains the following:
Code:
app-editors/emacs -gtk

Never had a problem with USE=gtk emacs. Could you elaborate please? I use gtk, not gtk3.

Due to a bug that has been in GTK since 2002 or earlier, Emacs in daemon mode will die if X dies with a graphical frame open.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crooksey wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Just responding with "because" followed by some text does not mean you have answered the question. :P

Also, if you're a Python developer, shouldn't you be using Django and not Rails?


Did you follow the link?

Basically aptana is based off of eclipse, but specifically designed for web developers, be it python or ruby based.

I actually use Pyramid (as you asked).

Yes, I followed the link. It looks like a nice too, and I like Eclipse too. But, you still haven't answered the question: why would a Python developer be using an IDE written in Java rather than one written in Python?
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Dr.Willy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
It looks like a nice too, and I like Eclipse too. But, you still haven't answered the question: why would a Python developer be using an IDE written in Java rather than one written in Python?

Why the fuck would you have to use an IDE written in the language of your project?
I mean, that must've been the kind of thinking that lead to the development of apache ant: "Guys, we need something for our build scripts" "Uhm, how 'bout make?" "We can't use that, it's not written in Java"
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr.Willy wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
It looks like a nice too, and I like Eclipse too. But, you still haven't answered the question: why would a Python developer be using an IDE written in Java rather than one written in Python?

Why the fuck would you have to use an IDE written in the language of your project?
I mean, that must've been the kind of thinking that lead to the development of apache ant: "Guys, we need something for our build scripts" "Uhm, how 'bout make?" "We can't use that, it's not written in Java"
Thank you.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
I still haven't worked up the courage to do it. Too many bloaty-looking USE flags enabled by default. I'm not sure I can go through with this. Seems like it might have been the original bloatware of computing antiquity.


if i was going to use emacs, i think i'd create a VM so as not to pollute my actuall install.

but then i think i'd eat a bullet befor i used emacs willingly

NQS
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerwylie wrote:
Dr.Willy wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
It looks like a nice too, and I like Eclipse too. But, you still haven't answered the question: why would a Python developer be using an IDE written in Java rather than one written in Python?

Why the fuck would you have to use an IDE written in the language of your project?
I mean, that must've been the kind of thinking that lead to the development of apache ant: "Guys, we need something for our build scripts" "Uhm, how 'bout make?" "We can't use that, it's not written in Java"
Thank you.

You wouldn't. My point was that somebody who describes themselves as a "Python developer" obviously considers that their language of choice, and since it is also (like Java) a flexible, multi-purpose, multi-paradigm interpreted language in which several IDEs have been written, why would one not choose to use an IDE written in one's own language of choice, which thereby enables one to have a higher level of mastery and control of it (for example, creating one's own customizations, plugin-ins, and contributions to it).

This is not a portable concept to all languages. One would not demand an IDE written in BASH for the purposes of writing BASH scripts, because BASH is not a suitable language for the creation of an IDE. The idea is ludicrous and an illogical appeal to ridicule.

An intelligent answer might be, "I might, except those IDEs suck, don't have the features I need." A strawman suggesting that my argument was that people should always use an IDE written in the language they are using (which I did not say or even imply) is, on the other hand, not an intelligent argument.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NotQuiteSane wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
I still haven't worked up the courage to do it. Too many bloaty-looking USE flags enabled by default. I'm not sure I can go through with this. Seems like it might have been the original bloatware of computing antiquity.


if i was going to use emacs, i think i'd create a VM so as not to pollute my actuall install.

but then i think i'd eat a bullet befor i used emacs willingly

NQS

Is there a live CD or small distro oriented at use from a USB key that has emacs already on it by default?
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Is there a live CD or small distro oriented at use from a USB key that has emacs already on it by default?

You could install gentoo on a usb stick pretty quickly if you have a half decent processor.
All you need is xorg, some kind of window manager and your kernel and bootloader. Grub2 works nicely on usb sticks.

Who'd want to use another distro anyway? ;)
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LiamOS wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Is there a live CD or small distro oriented at use from a USB key that has emacs already on it by default?

You could install gentoo on a usb stick pretty quickly if you have a half decent processor.
All you need is xorg, some kind of window manager and your kernel and bootloader. Grub2 works nicely on usb sticks.

Who'd want to use another distro anyway? ;)

Yeah, but just to try out emacs? Too much effort.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Yeah, but just to try out emacs? Too much effort.

Complaining that emacs pulls in too much stuff is like complaining that water is too wet. Clearly you are not cut out for emacs. :lol:
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LiamOS wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Is there a live CD or small distro oriented at use from a USB key that has emacs already on it by default?

You could install gentoo on a usb stick pretty quickly if you have a half decent processor.
All you need is xorg, some kind of window manager and your kernel and bootloader. Grub2 works nicely on usb sticks.

Who'd want to use another distro anyway? ;)


actually I agree. do a stage 4 backup, extract it inside a VM. fuck up the VM all you want, when it breaks, extract the stage 4 again.

take aslong to set up the VM and do the stage 4 crap as it would to go find/buy cd or usb, download "live" linux and burn it to the media you are using

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