Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
I've decided to try Emacs.
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next  
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Shadow Skill
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 1023

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
My take at this point is that Emacs would be far more useful than vim for serious, deeply-involved, time consuming project work
For coding at least, I've seen people do some pretty damned amazing stuff. I'm not saying emacs can't. Are you referring to more than just coding? For word processing type work, I've not seen anyone use vi effectively.
One or two famous writers have used Emacs for an extended period of time. Though the one I am thinking of did eventually move on to tools targeted at writers. Someone tell me the name. It is a sci-fi author.
_________________
Ware wa mutekinari.
Wa ga kage waza ni kanau mono nashi.
Wa ga ichigeki wa mutekinari.

"First there was nothing, so the lord gave us light. There was still nothing, but at least you could see it."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16117
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first guess was Mr. Cryptonomicon, and google reveals at least 3 within the top few results.
_________________
lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.

In Loving Memory
1787 - 2008
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1569
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Org mode looks extremely useful.
_________________
"The accumulation of all power, legislative, executive, and judiciary in the same hands...may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny."
--James Madison, Federalist 46
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Prenj
n00b
n00b


Joined: 20 Nov 2011
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At my previous job, there were two old-school UNIX wizzards, both of them were coding in Emacs, and were really good. Watching them using it was amazing, so I think I tried honestly 2-3 times over the period of 8 years to get to grips with it. The rationalle was simple, if I could be proficient and feel at home in emacs, I don't have to worry about IDE anymore, since you would get something super-rich that works on windows, linux, solaris, X or console.

But... I never went past the stage that it felt awkward and "wrong". Kinda like watching someone play drums, and then you sit and start doing it yourself, and after 2 minutes you start thinking "now, where is my bass guitar"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
juniper
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 759
Location: EU

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmitchell wrote:
pjp wrote:
For coding at least, I've seen people do some pretty damned amazing stuff. I'm not saying emacs can't. Are you referring to more than just coding? For word processing type work, I've not seen anyone use vi effectively.

LaTeX


vimlatex ftw.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1569
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're going to do that you might as well use Emacs. That's like building a shack in the bed of your pickup truck and pretending it's a Winnebago. :P
_________________
"The accumulation of all power, legislative, executive, and judiciary in the same hands...may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny."
--James Madison, Federalist 46
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16117
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmitchell wrote:
pjp wrote:
For coding at least, I've seen people do some pretty damned amazing stuff. I'm not saying emacs can't. Are you referring to more than just coding? For word processing type work, I've not seen anyone use vi effectively.

LaTeX
Right, but he was impressed with emacs, and I was comparing emacs & vi.

I've poked a stick at LaTeX (or some GUI version of it), and it didn't seem all that intuitive. At the time, I was trying to get something done, so really wasn't able (or willing) to spend much time learning it. It is on my list to learn someday. LibreOffice is just easier, and hard to break the habit of relying on (for significant documents where vi or notepad isn't appropriate).
_________________
lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.

In Loving Memory
1787 - 2008
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dmitchell
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 17 May 2003
Posts: 1159
Location: Austin, Texas

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never used vimlatex. But I recently discovered pandoc which can convert markdown ... to beamer slides! Mind. Blown.
_________________
Your argument is invalid.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Shadow Skill
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 1023

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmitchell wrote:
Never used vimlatex. But I recently discovered pandoc which can convert markdown ... to beamer slides! Mind. Blown.
I stumbled across this too recently, I don't have much of a use for it at the moment but there's a mode for it should I ever find a use for such a tool.
_________________
Ware wa mutekinari.
Wa ga kage waza ni kanau mono nashi.
Wa ga ichigeki wa mutekinari.

"First there was nothing, so the lord gave us light. There was still nothing, but at least you could see it."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Shadow Skill
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 1023

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Org mode looks extremely useful.
It can even do spreadsheets with math in them thanks to the use of calculator related functions. I had to whip up a quick table a day or two ago and didn't have any office program installed, I didn't want to wait on something like OO or Libreoffice to compile so I watched a video on using tables in Org-mode and was done in maybe ten minutes not counting the time it took to watch the video.
_________________
Ware wa mutekinari.
Wa ga kage waza ni kanau mono nashi.
Wa ga ichigeki wa mutekinari.

"First there was nothing, so the lord gave us light. There was still nothing, but at least you could see it."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dr.Willy
Guru
Guru


Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 353
Location: NRW, Germany

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmitchell wrote:
Never used vimlatex. But I recently discovered pandoc which can convert markdown ... to beamer slides! Mind. Blown.

Rule #46 of Life: Only after you wasted countless hours you find out how you could've done the same thing with much less effort. (… I'm still confident my presentation on Tuesday will be good)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1569
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmitchell wrote:
Never used vimlatex. But I recently discovered pandoc which can convert markdown ... to beamer slides! Mind. Blown.

That's the kind of functionality included in Emacs Org Mode. You organize tasks, thoughts, etc., using outline trees, including a basic markup language that integrates linking to everything (sites, documents, contacts, emails, tasks, code, etc.), and it can "publish" (convert and share) that in a variety of formats, include html, open office formats, documentation formats, and I think TeX. All this is built-in, of course, although not loaded unless you're going to use it. But wait! Order now and we'll include ...

Of course, it's only for keyboard-oriented people, not pointy-clicky people like yourself, who know better than to fall for the illusion of speed that keyboard-oriented user interfaces create. :P
_________________
"The accumulation of all power, legislative, executive, and judiciary in the same hands...may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny."
--James Madison, Federalist 46
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
smartass
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 04 Jul 2011
Posts: 189
Location: right behind you ... (you did turn around, didn't you?)

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pandoc is a nice utility, possibly one of the best of its kind atm. The author also made a wiki based on pandoc called gitit, because it uses git as a revision backend, so everything is a flat file.
I deployed it a few months ago at my university, because there are people that write in LaTeX and other things. It can't do everything, but it can do most things. Now we use several instances even internally for other projects.

However, I still find org-mode's Beamer minor mode way more powerful and faster for writing Beamer presentations.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dmitchell
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 17 May 2003
Posts: 1159
Location: Austin, Texas

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
That's the kind of functionality included in Emacs Org Mode. You organize tasks, thoughts, etc., using outline trees, including a basic markup language that integrates linking to everything (sites, documents, contacts, emails, tasks, code, etc.), and it can "publish" (convert and share) that in a variety of formats, include html, open office formats, documentation formats, and I think TeX. All this is built-in, of course, although not loaded unless you're going to use it. But wait! Order now and we'll include ...

Yeah I perused the web site. Looks pretty good. You've piqued my interest enough that I will give emacs a try someday.

Quote:
Of course, it's only for keyboard-oriented people, not pointy-clicky people like yourself, who know better than to fall for the illusion of speed that keyboard-oriented user interfaces create. :P

Stop baiting me. :lol:
_________________
Your argument is invalid.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Shadow Skill
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 1023

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmitchell wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
That's the kind of functionality included in Emacs Org Mode. You organize tasks, thoughts, etc., using outline trees, including a basic markup language that integrates linking to everything (sites, documents, contacts, emails, tasks, code, etc.), and it can "publish" (convert and share) that in a variety of formats, include html, open office formats, documentation formats, and I think TeX. All this is built-in, of course, although not loaded unless you're going to use it. But wait! Order now and we'll include ...

Yeah I perused the web site. Looks pretty good. You've piqued my interest enough that I will give emacs a try someday.

Quote:
Of course, it's only for keyboard-oriented people, not pointy-clicky people like yourself, who know better than to fall for the illusion of speed that keyboard-oriented user interfaces create. :P

Stop baiting me. :lol:


It is nice for simple todo lists I'm trying to get into the habit of setting up todo lists for my code so it helps to have this kind of thing available in my environment of choice. (Without annotating the source code itself with todo items.) I am trying to comprehend how to set up dependent tasks but I'm not quite understanding how the dependency mechanism works in Org.
_________________
Ware wa mutekinari.
Wa ga kage waza ni kanau mono nashi.
Wa ga ichigeki wa mutekinari.

"First there was nothing, so the lord gave us light. There was still nothing, but at least you could see it."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1569
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After a couple more days of exploration, I'm currently wondering to what extent this is even comprehensible. It seems like most people are using a few little pieces of it.

It seems like getting this most out of emacs would require developing a fairly in-depth understanding of how it works, as well as elisp. While it does a myriad of things out of the box, most users heavily modify it There are users creating their own extensions and customization on top of extensions and customization which are their own organized, collaborative projects, on top of extensions and customization which have their own communities a decade or more old, on top of the base product, which is regularly incorporating pieces of all the above.

I can't imagine what the use-case diagram would look like for this. It would cover the floor of an arena. It took me two days (of a couple hours each day) just to wade through the info docs for the base product. :lol:

I'm now calling it "a keyboard-oriented integrated development and productivity suite".

By the way, apparently somebody has created an "org-mode" for Vim, mimicking some of the same kind of capability.
_________________
"The accumulation of all power, legislative, executive, and judiciary in the same hands...may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny."
--James Madison, Federalist 46
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Shadow Skill
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 1023

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
After a couple more days of exploration, I'm currently wondering to what extent this is even comprehensible. It seems like most people are using a few little pieces of it.

It seems like getting this most out of emacs would require developing a fairly in-depth understanding of how it works, as well as elisp. While it does a myriad of things out of the box, most users heavily modify it There are users creating their own extensions and customization on top of extensions and customization which are their own organized, collaborative projects, on top of extensions and customization which have their own communities a decade or more old, on top of the base product, which is regularly incorporating pieces of all the above.

I can't imagine what the use-case diagram would look like for this. It would cover the floor of an arena. It took me two days (of a couple hours each day) just to wade through the info docs for the base product. :lol:

I'm now calling it "a keyboard-oriented integrated development and productivity suite".

By the way, apparently somebody has created an "org-mode" for Vim, mimicking some of the same kind of capability.
I'm reminded of an essay I read about a year ago that said that Lisps were too powerful. I think Emacs may prove the author's thesis on some level. Emacs is a never ending journey.

*protip The negative argument can save you a few keystrokes. Say for example that you forgot to capitalize the todo keyword in an org file, with negative-argument (C-- or M-- or C-M--) you can have upcase-word (M-u) operate on the word to the left of the cursor. Find more here in case I didn't already post this:http://www.masteringemacs.org/articles/2011/01/14/effective-editing-movement/
_________________
Ware wa mutekinari.
Wa ga kage waza ni kanau mono nashi.
Wa ga ichigeki wa mutekinari.

"First there was nothing, so the lord gave us light. There was still nothing, but at least you could see it."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1569
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. I'm trying to find an up to date source of information.

Edit: Great. The first thing out of his mouth is another highly recommended mode to use. :lol:

All these new key bindings are pushing valuable information off my stack; I'm screwing up in my keyboard-driven window manager and keyboard-driven web browser now. :lol:

Edit2: Now he's saying things I recall hearing from my Tae Kwon Do instructor and my Zen mentor:
Quote:
I’ve been using Emacs for a long time and I still learn new ways of doing things faster; but ultimately it is tenacity and persistence that will pay off in the long run.

Too bad at the end of the day it doesn't eliminate verbal redundancy eventually.
_________________
"The accumulation of all power, legislative, executive, and judiciary in the same hands...may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny."
--James Madison, Federalist 46
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16117
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Now he's saying things I recall hearing from my Tae Kwon Do instructor and my Zen mentor:
Quote:
I’ve been using Emacs for a long time and I still learn new ways of doing things faster; but ultimately it is tenacity and persistence that will pay off in the long run.
lol

Be formless, shapeless—like water. You put water in a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water in a bottle; it becomes the bottle. Now water can flow, or it can crash. Be water, my friend.
_________________
lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.

In Loving Memory
1787 - 2008
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
notageek
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 120
Location: Bangalore, India

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's Jeet Kun Do. Bruce Lee stuff.
_________________
There is no guarantee a stupid Dalai Lama won’t come next
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pjp
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16117
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is.
_________________
lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.

In Loving Memory
1787 - 2008
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
smartass
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 04 Jul 2011
Posts: 189
Location: right behind you ... (you did turn around, didn't you?)

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shadow Skill wrote:
I am trying to comprehend how to set up dependent tasks but I'm not quite understanding how the dependency mechanism works in Org.
AFAIK you do that by making dependent tasks subtrees of the parent task. You can also set some variables so that org-mode evaluates these dependencies in a stricter way, e.g. when adding a [1/3] or [50%]display or that you can't set a task DONE unless all subtasks are DONE.

BK, it's not the power of list that's enslaving you, it's your perfectionism ;)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marens
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 05 Aug 2004
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

we are still talking about TEXT EDITORS, right?
_________________
If English was good enough for Jesus, then it's good enough for you!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
smartass
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 04 Jul 2011
Posts: 189
Location: right behind you ... (you did turn around, didn't you?)

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes marens, whoever doesn't appreciate helpful editor macros for getting stuff done faster can use cat or ed if they prefer.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
juniper
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 759
Location: EU

PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmitchell wrote:
Never used vimlatex. But I recently discovered pandoc which can convert markdown ... to beamer slides! Mind. Blown.


you latex in vim and don't use vimlatex?

@BK: a man's home is his castle.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 5 of 7

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum