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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:31 am    Post subject: I've decided to try Emacs. Reply with quote

I've avoided it all this time. I've used vi. I use a tiling window manager. I just feel like my GNU/Linux experience cannot be complete without at least trying Emacs. No bullshit X version: the real thing.

Any big hints or warnings before I take the plunge?
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dmitchell
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It'll turn you into a total fag. Even the name is faggy.
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notageek
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'll need 18 fingers.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
You'll need 18 fingers.

That sounds about right.
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you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmitchell wrote:
It'll turn you into a total fag. Even the name is faggy.

And that picture of Wagner isn't? Looks like he was out for a round of golf and just noticed how nicely his caddy's knickers fit when he's retrieving a ball.

Seriously: it's that bad?
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Last edited by Bones McCracker on Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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notageek
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Instead of us telling you, why don't you come back and tell us in a few days. I'm sure you'll be able to put it more eloquently than anyone else here.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
Instead of us telling you, why don't you come back and tell us in a few days. I'm sure you'll be able to put it more eloquently than anyone else here.

I bet you've never even used it. And everybody knows if it doesn't have pointy-clicky stuff, dmitchell won't touch it. :P
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notageek
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in a team, which predominantly uses emacs. I was asked by my manager to ensure my code is readable in emacs.

Yes, I have used emacs.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
I'm in a team, which predominantly uses emacs. I was asked by my manager to ensure my code is readable in emacs.

Yes, I have used emacs.

They predominately use emacs, but you gotta be different, right?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been using vi. Its simpler, quicker to use. I don't have to be a finger gymnast to use an editor.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
I've been using vi. Its simpler, quicker to use. I don't have to be a finger gymnast to use an editor.

My experiences exactly, although I admit it's been about a decade since I've touched emacs.
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you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use nano, its been about 6~ years since ive used a distro that doesn't contain it as standard and takes all of 2minutes to install if im on bsd. It works for editing config files very well. Why waste an hour learning emacs when its sooo bad?

When im coding I use an IDE (eclipse/aptana) as I didnt spend $1000+ on my laptop to use 1% of its CPU and RAM, I spent $1000+ to use a nice fully featured DE with whatever apps I want that make my life as a coder easier.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aidanjt wrote:
notageek wrote:
I've been using vi. Its simpler, quicker to use. I don't have to be a finger gymnast to use an editor.

My experiences exactly, although I admit it's been about a decade since I've touched emacs.


same keybindings no doubt.

Emacs seems to have more support (especially if you use tex), but I prefer vim. i just like have jklh doing the right thing. commands aren't complicated in vim.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crooksey wrote:
I use nano, its been about 6~ years since ive used a distro that doesn't contain it as standard and takes all of 2minutes to install if im on bsd. It works for editing config files very well. Why waste an hour learning emacs when its sooo bad?

When im coding I use an IDE (eclipse/aptana) as I didnt spend $1000+ on my laptop to use 1% of its CPU and RAM, I spent $1000+ to use a nice fully featured DE with whatever apps I want that make my life as a coder easier.


that's why i use gvim.

i do mostly python and latex. what's better for python than gvim :wink:
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
I prefer vim. i just like have jklh doing the right thing. commands aren't complicated in vim.


you mean entering jklh

because everything else is incredible stupid.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
you mean entering jklh

because everything else is incredible stupid.

^ :!:
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energyman76b
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seriously

emacs was made for people with manly keyboards. If you only have a girly 101 or 102 key keyboard - that is not emacs fault. As a truely great program emacs is able to deal with such sub par hardware.

vi(m) on the other hand just demands incredible amounts of braindamage. As soons as the victim is mostly braindead, its 'modes' and assorted crap are looking great and vi(m) like the best editor ever. A victim of vi(m) at that stage should be soothed with sweet words while the vetinary prepares for the mercy killing.
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Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
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LoTeK
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
When im coding I use an IDE (eclipse/aptana) as I didnt spend $1000+ on my laptop to use 1% of its CPU and RAM, I spent $1000+ to use a nice fully featured DE with whatever apps I want that make my life as a coder easier.


I currently program in eiffel with the eiffelstudio, which is similar to eclipse. I don't understand why such an environment should make your life as a coder easier. I mean one important thing is syntax highlighting which vim etc support of course.
Of all engineering disciplines maybe software is the most buggiest from all, for example a hardware failure is very rarely but system- or program crashes do happen all the time, so why write programs that are way more complex but don't provide any thing absolute necessary, or do someone believe a vim-coder is not as good as a eclipse-coder?!

I have spend more then $1000 on my laptop and I also want some nice stuff like eyecandy etc, but even the best laptops today don't have enough RAM/CPU to for example factorize large numbers (I admit, not that important, but funny :) ) or other large computations. Graphic things like games or simulations are not the same as (in my opinion very senseless and disturbing) window buttons or other GUI stuff. I think the reason for so much GUI-stuff is that every non computer-geek or whatever can use a computer, but it doesn't provide anything that CLI don't, or not?

Another thing is that this stuff gets more and more abstract and therefore makes it harder to understand a computer (hardware and OS). by the way emacs should be very good for lisp-programming...

@crooksey, no offense if it seems so :)
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
vi(m) on the other hand just demands incredible amounts of braindamage.

why ?
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Bigun
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've used nano for any type of configuration file changes, for anything more complex than that I turn to jEdit.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BK, try org-mode ;)

What I see as EMACS killer features ( you could also read: features that Vi(M) doesn't have or aren't as good):

  • org-mode. Period.
    Who hasn't tried, cannot understand. Imagine making a full LaTeX Beamer presentation with just a few lines while being updated on the agenda for the presentation topics
  • dired - imagine working with file names like with written text
  • daemon mode - I can have several emacsclients open on several desktops, all sharing the same set of buffers which I can display and hide in different layouts. Using emacs in dameon mode + emacsclient is also a lot less resource expensive and starts up very fast.
  • various minor and major modes - simplifying common tasks
  • working with external processes in inferior buffers
  • as ELisp is the common programming interface for most extensions, extending them is quite consistent with all the nice hooks and documentation


I still use ViM whenever I just need to quickly edit or display some configuration file, just to keep my skills up.

IMHO, Vi(M) is a great text editor, but EMACS is a great text writer. What I mean is that e.g. writing some LaTeX file from scratch in vim may require more keystrokes than in Emacs, because EMACS has more macros for various things (org-mode + auctex > vim-latex), but changing a few things once the file is written may be quicker in vim with all the cool key-combo shortcuts.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:19 pm    Post subject: Re: I've decided to try Emacs. Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Any big hints or warnings before I take the plunge?


Remember Linus' warning:

Linus wrote:
In short: just say NO TO DRUGS, and maybe you won't end up like the Hurd people.


The same thing applies to people who use and develop emacs.

NQS
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:47 pm    Post subject: Re: I've decided to try Emacs. Reply with quote

NotQuiteSane wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Any big hints or warnings before I take the plunge?


Remember Linus' warning:

Linus wrote:
In short: just say NO TO DRUGS, and maybe you won't end up like the Hurd people.


The same thing applies to people who use and develop emacs.

NQS


Steve Jobs did drugs. Linus didn't. There you go. :lol:
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:03 pm    Post subject: Re: I've decided to try Emacs. Reply with quote

Prenj wrote:
Steve Jobs did drugs. Linus didn't. There you go. :lol:


Are you implying that apple is useful for something other than seperating idiots from their money?

There is nothing else apple has ever done that couldn't be done better with what already existed.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:11 pm    Post subject: Re: I've decided to try Emacs. Reply with quote

NotQuiteSane wrote:
Prenj wrote:
Steve Jobs did drugs. Linus didn't. There you go. :lol:


Are you implying that apple is useful for something other than seperating idiots from their money?

There is nothing else apple has ever done that couldn't be done better with what already existed.

NQS


It is also useful to separate aspergers from the rest. :lol:
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