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McGruff
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 147

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mutter mumble carbon tax? mumble
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juniper
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 758
Location: EU

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:

It doesn't matter what your "original comment" here was; it's still begging the question and logically incoherent. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is not axiomatically a morally superior alternative to parents providing for their own children. We may have 5% of our children going without regular health care, but you've abdicated parental responsibility, are robbing people to pay for other people's children, and are teaching an entire society from birth to be helpless and dependent on others. There's nothing British about that.


tax is theft again :roll:

whatever. parental responsibility is not abdicated. it's shared and it works in the real world.

Quote:

Yes, I've been there, including the East End. Your country is inundated with yobs and chavs. You have the highest rate of criminal violence in the EU. You have had to resort to accosting people on the street and checking their papers and putting cameras on every street corner. You just had hordes of yobs rampaging through the streets burning things, overturning cars, and looting shops, so don't tell me it's "on the decline". :roll:


inundated with yobs and chavs? I live HERE. I can walk to the east end in an hour. You may have been here years ago, but I can tell you it isn't inundated with chavs. It simply isn't. Yes, there are probably more drunken louts than other places, but that hardly makes us inundated. But you yelling about us being inundated with chavs without providing a shred of evidence doesn't make it so.

The east end is a little scary though.

You are no doubt referring the rash of articles a few years ago about having the worst crime in europe. a few things about that. It's been noted, that "violent crime" is actually radically differently defined in different countries, so that particular stat is very hard to compare across countries (there are a number of others). Homicide is the most reliable statistic (we know who's the undisputed champion in that category, don't we?), and so are more well defined crimes like robbery etc.

However, if you have actually read something of substance you can easily find that it has been dropping for a long time. The culprit for the misinformation is that crime recording procedure changed a decade ago. there was a big hoopla about this where tories were blaming labour for a big jump in crime. however, statistics, a constant thorn on conservatives' side, showed that adjusting for the new recording procedures shows that crime went down.

but carry on talking about the city I live in like you know it better than I do, without even statistics on your side.
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big dave
n00b
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Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 0
Location: land of first world problems

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

US department of agriculture says don't feed the wildlife or it will become dependent on humans and won't fend for themselves.

Joe Biden himself says we need to get out of the middle east (but does nothing to back that) arguing that as long as we provide for them, they won't take care of themselves.

but when it comes to US voters, fuck be all... democrats believe it's a fucking travesty if we don't take your money at gunpoint to give to someone else.
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John-Boy
Guru
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Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 439
Location: Desperately seeking moksha in all the wrong places

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
substance you can easily find that it has been dropping for a long time.


Yet, it's not what people are seeing - those data probably also don't take into
account crime that isn't reported, children and youth causing aggravation, verbal abuse.

The type of stuff that makes life shitty - because you can't do anything to correct it (astern rebuke and
a clip around the ear would work wonders), but nothing is done - the law doesn't work & people know that.

Ain't reported. A few years ago, I had suffered a minor case of vandalism, I took the effort to report it, mainly
because of the above. In the scheme of things, piddling in the wind.
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juniper
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Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 758
Location: EU

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John-Boy wrote:
juniper wrote:
substance you can easily find that it has been dropping for a long time.


Yet, it's not what people are seeing - those data probably also don't take into
account crime that isn't reported, children and youth causing aggravation, verbal abuse.

The type of stuff that makes life shitty - because you can't do anything to correct it (astern rebuke and
a clip around the ear would work wonders), but nothing is done - the law doesn't work & people know that.

Ain't reported. A few years ago, I had suffered a minor case of vandalism, I took the effort to report it, mainly
because of the above. In the scheme of things, piddling in the wind.


but how reliable an indicator is "what people see"? people, unfortunately, are terrible with statistics. i don't think there is a bigger david and goliath battle out there than people vs insurance rates. it's not only unreliable, but it is hard to compare year on year.

And what people "see" may not be crime at all. Famously, americans think their crime rate is going up, but it has been going down for two decades. and not down a little but, but down A LOT. the primary cause for this misconception, apparently, is the media.

furthermore, the statistics are based on the british crime survey, not on police statistics. Thus, robberies, assaults and murders (of course) are likely accurate, domestic violence is likely underestimated by it.

Louts certainly make life shitty. about the second or third day I was in britain i had some racial slurs thrown my way by some drunken idiots. but we are hardly inundated with them. I haven't had an incident since.
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