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McGruff
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
You European Tools are so intellectually dishonest as to not even be deserving of a real debate.


Well, you're correct that bias precludes a real debate but I'm not sure if you've correctly identified the source. Whatever mistakes might have been made, or who might have made them, we're not going to learn anything about that from feeble-minded, right-wing attacks.

Remember all those Fox news guys who were so certain that Romney was going to win and who heaped abuse on the "biased" Nate Silver...? Or Romney sneering at climate change at the rape-ublican convention?

If I want balance, I'm going to look elsewhere.
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dmitchell
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One down, the entire agency to go. It's a start.
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wildhorse
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And who is going to be the next trapstar?
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Prenj
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
Prenj wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
so he retires for being unreliable in his relationship - and you blame Obama with the rest of the Obama hating posse falling into line.

Impressive.


I find it odd that you, as european, would think that having affair outside marriage would be reason enough for a politician to resign his post. Isn't that something that european ethos was supposed to have transcended, and indeed used to laugh at when it came to UK politicians and their "affairs"?


he is not a politician but was head of CIA. And yes, I would expect the head of such an agency retire. Because such an affair makes him susceptible to blackmail. Do YOU want to take that risk?


If the society doesn't consider it a BIG deal, then blackmail holds no sway over him. If you are true liberal, then you don't really care. It's their private thing. Coupled with statistics, at least in Europe, where over 50% of married partners at one point or another cheat on their spouse. Statistically, then, it is more likely than not, so if he cheated on his wife it only makes him more representative of the norm in the society.

If they said he is fired because he leaked classified documents to non-authorised person (his lover), it would be another matter, as it could be argued to be incompentence on a delicate job. However, it's not the route it went, it went into public smearing and double-morale campaign. Nothing more to it.

Probably for the reasons BK mentioned in his post, about him being a strong possible candidate for republican party.
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energyman76b
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, in Europe it might not be a big deal. But in the USA with the Republidumps and their evangelical posse?
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prenj wrote:
If the society doesn't consider it a BIG deal, then blackmail holds no sway over him.

Pretty sure he was worried about what his wife would not think, not the abstraction called society.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmitchell wrote:
Prenj wrote:
If the society doesn't consider it a BIG deal, then blackmail holds no sway over him.

Pretty sure he was worried about what his wife would not think, not the abstraction called society.


Sure, but that is his problem, not the reason to fire him.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wildhorse wrote:
The average US American conservative needs years if not decades to notice simple change and comprehend facts. Like that Burma is called Myanmar.

I notice you just called it Burma, though.

Actually, it's properly called Burma. The totalitarian military junta that usurped control and is brutally oppressing its populace call it Myanmar, along with the assholes who recognize them as being a legitimate government, which includes the United States.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prenj wrote:
dmitchell wrote:
Prenj wrote:
If the society doesn't consider it a BIG deal, then blackmail holds no sway over him.

Pretty sure he was worried about what his wife would not think, not the abstraction called society.


Sure, but that is his problem, not the reason to fire him.

I agree. Also, none of this answers the question: "why now?"

The Obama Administration has known about this since way back when Petraeus was still an Army Officer, leading troops in Afghanistan. Yet, Obama appointed him Director of the CIA. So, why does it all of sudden now become an issue?

For two reasons:

a) the election is over, and Petraeus is no longer a potential political adversary in Obama's campaign to be re-elected, so he no longer must be kept in an official role requiring loyalty to the administration, or least political agnosticism

b) because he tells the truth and does his duty to the people and Constitution, Petraeus is a liability to Obama, who does not
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, it's some sort of cleaning-up job and political play, and the reasons stated are FUD. We can only speculate what the reasons are, but if you consider that republicans clearly lack good candidates, it could be a play in that direction.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has the House of Lies given a reason he won't be testifying? Resignation isn't sufficient.
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McGruff
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The House of Lies appear to be busy screaming "cover up!".
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energyman76b
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prenj wrote:
dmitchell wrote:
Prenj wrote:
If the society doesn't consider it a BIG deal, then blackmail holds no sway over him.

Pretty sure he was worried about what his wife would not think, not the abstraction called society.


Sure, but that is his problem, not the reason to fire him.


but he wasn't fired. He resigned.
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Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
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Clad in Sky
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm confused.
Our media has not only stated that Petraeus resigned, but also that this is a blow to Obama.
Of course it might just be propaganda. :roll:
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Old School
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ratmonkey wrote:
Old School wrote:
If you substituted the name George Bush for Barack Obama over the past four years, the usual suspects on this forum would be going nuts.
For example:
Assassinating an American citizen who was on the President's hit list. All without due process. Total quiet from the usual suspects. Tell me with a straight face the usual suspects would have remained quiet if it were a Republican.


Conversely, the other "usual suspects" for the right wing contingent would be busy justifying if it was a republican. Thoughtless bias, devoid of any logic, exist on both sides of the fence. It's not exclusive to the guys that you don't agree with.


Ahhh, the other guy does it too.

But it is nice that you confirm my belief that the radical lefties on this forum exhibit "Thoughtless bias, devoid of any logic."
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McGruff
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK toots, let me ask a logical, unbiased question: are there any confirmed details or is it all just rumour and speculation?
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
Prenj wrote:
dmitchell wrote:
Prenj wrote:
If the society doesn't consider it a BIG deal, then blackmail holds no sway over him.

Pretty sure he was worried about what his wife would not think, not the abstraction called society.


Sure, but that is his problem, not the reason to fire him.


but he wasn't fired. He resigned.

That's how high-level political appointees are fired: they are informed that the President "will reluctantly agree to accept their resignation".
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pjp
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
The House of Lies appear to be busy screaming "cover up!".
Nice troll (I refuse to believe you are that naive).
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McGruff
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are there any confirmed details or is it all just rumour and speculation?
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clad in Sky wrote:
I'm confused.
Our media has not only stated that Petraeus resigned, but also that this is a blow to Obama.
Of course it might just be propaganda. :roll:

It's no "blow to Obama". They have probably had this planned for months. It was apparently high on the post-election agenda.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
Are there any confirmed details or is it all just rumour and speculation?

It's partly confirmed details and partly speculation. For example, it's a known fact that the FBI had uncovered the affair back when Petraeus was an Army officer in Afghanistan. We have only speculation as the real reasons he was "allowed to resign".

It's indeed possible that the Obama Administration knew about it but was ignoring it, and since it became public knowledge somehow, Petraeus insisted upon resigning, being the professional he is, and Obama reluctantly accepted.

But personally, I find the timing highly suspicious. It was essentially the first thing to happen after the election. That leads me to believe that the people most sensitive to whether it happened before or after the election were driving the timeline (they being the White House).

I also find it highly suspicious that Petraeus didn't tow the line on Benghazi, and was slated to testify (essentially testifying against Obama, who still faces a scandal), and has now, just after the election and just before his testimony, been effectively silenced.

That's speculation.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
But personally, I find the timing highly suspicious. It was essentially the first thing to happen after the election. That leads me to believe that the people most sensitive to whether it happened before or after the election were driving the timeline (they being the White House).

so these super sneaky conspiring people choose the most suspicious time to have him resign?
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McGruff
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
mcgruff wrote:
Are there any confirmed details or is it all just rumour and speculation?

....
....


OK. So that's a no.

What word would you recommend to describe people who voice opinions without possession of facts? Would "bloviating" be acceptable?
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BonezTheGoon
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So long as they are clear that they are speculating and are not misrepresenting the information, I'd call them an intellectual for sharing in a conversation responsibly. Especially when they are not trying to convince anyone of their view and instead are simply sharing.

I'd call that process brain-storming, and sharing of thoughts and ideas.

What would you call someone that is against the open sharing of thoughts and ideas in a public forum?
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BonezTheGoon
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, since when did opinions have to be supported by facts anyway?

Please submit your "facts" for why you like your favorite color, your favorite food, and your favorite holiday.
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