Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
It's been a while since we had a systemd rant, so...
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  
This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Gentoo Chat
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Gusar
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 2633
Location: Slovenia

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

szczerb wrote:
Gusar wrote:
szczerb wrote:
Systemd let's you use any other DE or none, while Gnome 3 forces a system init mechanism on you.

Yeah. And? That doesn't explain why Gentoo shouldn't package Gnome3.
Just pointed out that your "turning around" made less sense then the original.

How exactly? I still don't have an explanation from your or khayyam why Gentoo shouldn't package Gnome3.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
khayyam
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 07 Jun 2012
Posts: 1538

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gusar wrote:
This thread is about systemd. So how exactly am I moving goal posts? All my statements were always in connection to systemd (and Gnome). Cos, you know, it's what the thread is about. Are you trying to say you took a statement of mine and responded to it completely disregarding the context in which that statement was made? Sorry, that makes no sense.

Gusar ... follow the thread of the dicussion:

1). "Let me turn that around on you: Why should Gentoo not package Gnome 3, other than some vague group of persons not liking systemd?"
To which I responded "that isn't a "turn around" because liking systemd, or not, is not really whats at issue, the issue is that with such "blessed dependency" the "choice" of systemd, or not, becomes "systemd (tout court)" as vertical intergration is removing choice from the equation."

2). "you're advocating for "choice" by... removing choice."
To which I responded "I've already countered such claims ... but ok, you can have your "choice" which *includes* such things as "voluntary servitude", "outcome neutrality", etc, etc"

3). "I'm not using systemd, and I don't intend to in the immediate future. And I never had interest in Gnome, not even the old much saner Gnome2, let alone the crazy thing that is the Gnome Shell. So this "servitude" you're talking about... yeah."
To which I responded "My point is not "systemd/gnome" equals "servitude" but that "choice" has a context (that would necessarily exclude certain options)."

4). "A context that does not apply to the software discussed here. So the point of making your point is... zero"
At this point you've moved the goal posts, as now its not a matter of "choice having a context" but the "context [...] does not apply to the software discussed here".

So, again, the "context" for my statement is clear and applicable.

best ... khay
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Gusar
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 2633
Location: Slovenia

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your point 2). is missing one crucial sentence. My post was: "Basically, everything using systemd should be removed. So you're advocating for "choice" by... removing choice."

So it's pretty clear that by "removing choice" I meant "removing choice to run Gnome". But then you started about "servitude" and some "context" that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand - which was gnome and systemd and your advocacy to remove them from gentoo. To that I can only say: huh??
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John R. Graham
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 08 Mar 2005
Posts: 7398
Location: Somewhere over Atlanta, Georgia

PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hallmarks of a Troll, among others:
  • Making impossible requests, usually couched in polite language. For example,
    khayyam wrote:
    ...you should extend the curtesy[sic] of following what I've said, not what you think I've said.
    What? How can anyone possibly do that? I think you said or meant something. I'm wrong: utterly wrong, in fact, but that's what I think you said.
  • Clarifying without really clarifying, by repeating (sometimes quoting verbatim) previous utterances that have already been misunderstood. See, really, all of khayyam's previous post.
  • Deliberately being obtuse. For example,
    khayyam wrote:
    MustrumR wrote:
    khayyam wrote:
    3. remove any package that adopts systemd as a "blessed dependency".

    People like GNOME. I use GNOME 3 on my touchscreen device.

    MustrumR ... and your point is?
So based on these points, I've totally demolished any reasonable interpretation that khayyam's not being a troll. Right? There's absolutely no room for dissent or opposing position, nor is there any flaw or lack of clarity in my points. Right? I need not explain nor clarify further: I'd just be repeating myself and, well, that'd be trolling. Right? :wink:

There's some useful technical and ideological discussion in this thread but khayyam's last post tipped the balance. Locked.

- John
_________________
This space intentionally left blank.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Gentoo Chat All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum