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ichbinsisyphos
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, I really tried to get into it, I really tried to believe that I am missing something, but Vim is a joke. I am sure it was amazing compared to ed, maybe it is still on a headless server, but otherwise there's no point to it.
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aidanjt
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ichbinsisyphos wrote:
Sorry, I really tried to get into it, I really tried to believe that I am missing something, but Vim is a joke. I am sure it was amazing compared to ed, maybe it is still on a headless server, but otherwise there's no point to it.

Vim's modal editing has a steep learning curve, but not insurmountably so.
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you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault.
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ichbinsisyphos
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, but there's no benefit to it, there is nothing waiting at the end of that curve.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ichbinsisyphos wrote:
Yeah, but there's no benefit to it, there is nothing waiting at the end of that curve.

Other than faster, more efficient editing?
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you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault.
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ichbinsisyphos
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Faster, more efficient than what? ed?
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ppurka
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ichbinsisyphos wrote:
Faster, more efficient than what? ed?
As I already said in some other thread (or maybe this thread), vim is good for editing. It is faster and more efficient than most other "editors" in actually editing stuff. If you just want to write line after line of prose without any editing, you might as well just use nano or pico or notepad or any of those variety.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ichbinsisyphos wrote:
Yeah, but there's no benefit to it, there is nothing waiting at the end of that curve.

I think maybe you just haven't gone to enough trouble to learn the basics, and therefore, you're an inadequate user. You should go back and master that sucker, or else it's just another rock being pushed only partway up that hill before rolling back down on you.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
ichbinsisyphos wrote:
Yeah, but there's no benefit to it, there is nothing waiting at the end of that curve.

I think maybe you just haven't gone to enough trouble to learn the basics, and therefore, you're an inadequate user. You should go back and master that sucker, or else it's just another rock being pushed only partway up that hill before rolling back down on you.

saying there is nothing waiting at the end of the learning curve to vi/vim isn't a maligned rant. I'm not even sure one can be an inadequate user althought dammit some put in a good effort at being such.

i don't think anyone has mastered vi either, that shit can be obtuse in its features.
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notageek
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

People complaining about vi/vim should use emacs for a while.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
People complaining about vi/vim should use emacs for a while.

You're doing it wrong. You're supposed to say "vim sucks; emacs rules!"
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notageek
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay.
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tylerwylie
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
notageek wrote:
People complaining about vi/vim should use emacs for a while.

You're doing it wrong. You're supposed to say "vim sucks; emacs rules!"
i
vim wins hands down
:wq
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dmitchell
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerwylie wrote:
i
vim wins hands down
:wq

Try typing that in vim. :facepalm: :P :lol:
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another really cool editor is 'e3'. It doesn't do anything fancy, but it's tiny (1/20th of the size of nano). It's the perfect editor for a rescue disk or anybody who just wants a really no-bloat editor for routine tasks.

It's less than 13KB in size with no build or run-time dependencies. It has no config file. You can get any of the standard keybindings (Windows, vi, emacs, pico/nano) by starting it with different commands (e3, e3vi, e3em, e3pi, e3ws). Of course, you can 'lock in' your favorite with an alias or symlink.

No syntax highlighting, no auto-indent, no ebullient ctags. Just a basic editor that's only 13KB in size and does what you'd expect it to (unicode, typical in-file navigation, find/replace, multiple undos, block manipulation (cut, copy, paste, save to a file), and pipe the buffer through sed commands), etc.).

Edit: oh, and it has a built-in calculator. :roll:
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Last edited by Bones McCracker on Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:57 am; edited 5 times in total
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tylerwylie
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmitchell wrote:
tylerwylie wrote:
i
vim wins hands down
:wq

Try typing that in vim. :facepalm: :P :lol:
So I missed and escape, big whoop. 8)
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Mardok45
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing you can do to ease the steep learning curve with Vim is to create your own custom key bindings. You can put the layouts in whatever fashion that makes sense to you. The default key bindings make absolutely no sense whatsoever, except for the navigation keys.

After learning how the normal, edit, visual, and command modes work in Vim, look up the key listing here:
http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~fine/Tech/vi.html

Then in your ~/.vimrc, start putting in nnoremap commands and start customizing to whatever you want.

I have my key bindings so all the navigation keys are on the right home keys, tabs and split screen and navigating between them is on the top-right keys, marking positions and save/exit is on the bottom right keys, entering edit/visual modes are on the left home keys, find and undo/redo on the bottom left keys.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMHO, changing default key bindings can create a headache, because every time you sit down at a new machine you'll be in the land of Oz. One of the benefits of using Vim is that all POSIX-compliant systems must have a vi-compatible editor. There's a reason for that, and when you get all fancy with your keybindings, you throw away the intended benefit of standardization.

Sure, you can carry around your config files with you, or put them on the internet, but who wants to screw around with that every time you're on a different machine?

Just my opinion.
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Mardok45
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, I'm not saying to not get familiar with the default layout.

However, how often do you switch machines? Are you in an environment where your home directory isn't mounted over the network? Besides, we customize everything from the distributions we use to the desktop environment. What's so different about customizing the key bindings in vim?
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose it's fine for many people. I'm often on clients' machines or my few local Linux friends' machines. I find it useful to be comfortable with the defaults.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerwylie wrote:
dmitchell wrote:
tylerwylie wrote:
i
vim wins hands down
:wq

Try typing that in vim. :facepalm: :P :lol:
So I missed and escape, big whoop. 8)

Actually, that's whats counter-intuitive and ultimately wrong with vim. Everybody does it, even vim evangelists, tho not everybody is living in denial about it :lol:
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tylerwylie
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prenj wrote:
tylerwylie wrote:
dmitchell wrote:
tylerwylie wrote:
i
vim wins hands down
:wq

Try typing that in vim. :facepalm: :P :lol:
So I missed and escape, big whoop. 8)

Actually, that's whats counter-intuitive and ultimately wrong with vim. Everybody does it, even vim evangelists, tho not everybody is living in denial about it :lol:
I know, I have a coworker who is rather proficient with it... I can use it effectively but I prefer notepad++ in Windows to anything *nix offers now...
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Shadow Skill
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey at least in Emacs I can do stuff like this. Not even having two screens is as effective as having the PDF in the editor window itself. The only thing missing is a way to click the hyperlinks in the PDF since Emacs converts to PNG for display. You can search text though.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
ichbinsisyphos wrote:
Sublime Text looks good. It's not opensource, though.

Btw, I'm already over Vim again, what a stupid idea :lol:


vim is addictive. It's the only editor i use. once you get the hang of it everything else will piss you off. I used to use emacs years ago, but there was this one machine I had to use and the only editor on it of substance was vim. but then I got so used to using vim I ditched emacs.


(emphasis mine)

I totally agree. I really don't get all the vim hatred in this topic. Vim has a high learning curve, but the reward was vastly faster editing, no screwing around with claw-like emacs or windows shortcuts, easy mnemonics, customizable commands and keys... I've used vim for about 4 or 5 years now and don't see any other editor taking its place for me. I've used codeblocks, Eclipse, Notepad++, and emacs... Sublime seems like a pretty good editor, but it's not free and so it shall never find a place on my screen.

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1218390/what-is-your-most-productive-shortcut-with-vim/1220118 - (First answer), relevant
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