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Leo Laursen
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:54 am    Post subject: binutils-2.23 doesn't work on systemd only system (-openrc) Reply with quote

After upgrading binutils to version 2.23 I'm unable to compile.
There was some errors with /etc/init.d/functions.sh not found.

I think will take this opportunity to change to another distro.
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DaggyStyle
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:04 am    Post subject: Re: binutils-2.23 doesn't work on systemd only system (-open Reply with quote

Leo Laursen wrote:
After upgrading binutils to version 2.23 I'm unable to compile.
There was some errors with /etc/init.d/functions.sh not found.

I think will take this opportunity to change to another distro.

let me see if I got you, systemd is so important to you that you are wiling to switch distro?
if so, care to share why the urgent need for systemd?
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Leo Laursen
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:21 am    Post subject: Re: binutils-2.23 doesn't work on systemd only system (-open Reply with quote

DaggyStyle wrote:
Leo Laursen wrote:
After upgrading binutils to version 2.23 I'm unable to compile.
There was some errors with /etc/init.d/functions.sh not found.

I think will take this opportunity to change to another distro.

let me see if I got you, systemd is so important to you that you are wiling to switch distro?
if so, care to share why the urgent need for systemd?

This was just a warning in case others, like me, had removed sysvinit and openrc.

I'm not changing distro because of systemd, it's just that I have to reinstall anyway.
I am however rather pissed about being harasssed for mentioning systemd on these forums. Maybe that's what you are picking up on.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:11 am    Post subject: Re: binutils-2.23 doesn't work on systemd only system (-open Reply with quote

Leo Laursen wrote:
DaggyStyle wrote:
Leo Laursen wrote:
After upgrading binutils to version 2.23 I'm unable to compile.
There was some errors with /etc/init.d/functions.sh not found.

I think will take this opportunity to change to another distro.

let me see if I got you, systemd is so important to you that you are wiling to switch distro?
if so, care to share why the urgent need for systemd?

This was just a warning in case others, like me, had removed sysvinit and openrc.

I'm not changing distro because of systemd, it's just that I have to reinstall anyway.
I am however rather pissed about being harasssed for mentioning systemd on these forums. Maybe that's what you are picking up on.

picked on? have you read what you've wrote? what I've wrote?

you've removed openrc, upgraded binutils and it fails, so you think of changing distro because you cannot get binutils and systemd to work.
with all due respect, systemd is small and not so relevant (yet) program which I find it strange that one wants to change distro because it doesn't work.
usually when something doesn't work you open a bug on it, both systemd and binutils-2.23 are in portage. (what begs the question, why does this thread is here and not in Other Things Gentoo?)
also, if you do reinstall the system, what are the assumptions on which you think that this issue will not reoccur? maybe we can help you solve the issue.

there is a specific reason why you want systemd so hard (up until you are willing to change disrto), I just wanted to know why. maybe your reason will be valid enough for me to agree but it doesn't mean I pick on you.

users in the forum might "pick" on systemd users because of the actions of it's maintainer, I'm not endorsing it in any way but remember that most people in the world cannot seem to differentiate between the maintainer and the software he writes, so when selecting a software, one must take in account that if it's maintainer draws fire, he might get caught in the line of fire.
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Leo Laursen
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaggyStyle
I didn't mean that you picked on me. I was using "picking up on" in the sense that you might see a reasoning in my post, apart from what I was intending.
I'm changing because my toolchain is broken, so I have to reinstall anyway, not because I wan't to use systemd.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leo Laursen wrote:
DaggyStyle
I didn't mean that you picked on me. I was using "picking up on" in the sense that you might see a reasoning in my post, apart from what I was intending.
I'm changing because my toolchain is broken, so I have to reinstall anyway, not because I wan't to use systemd.

ok, I hope reinstall will solve your issue, it might be a good idea to file a bug about systemd and binutils thought.
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Leo Laursen
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaggyStyle wrote:

ok, I hope reinstall will solve your issue, it might be a good idea to file a bug about systemd and binutils thought.

systemd without openrc is not supported, so I don't think filing a bug will help.
That's a little silly though, since some packages don't support openrc, when the systemd use flag is set. [1]
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:09 pm    Post subject: Re: binutils-2.23 doesn't work on systemd only system (-open Reply with quote

Leo Laursen wrote:
This was just a warning in case others, like me, had removed sysvinit and openrc.

Leo ... well, thats not really how your message reads, its not so much a warning but a statement of fact ... it broke for some (unstated) reason and your switching distros. Such a statement is easily interpreted as "farewell ... and you suck".

Note: systemd is ~arch, binutils-2.23 is ~arch ... and with ~arch you can expect that things will break, or fail to work as expected, from time to time. Also, ~arch requires some understanding of how to fix things should they break, and/or how to revert to a previous working state. Your current impass is no doubt fixable, but your responce is to point at the distro as the problem, and like some failed relationship call "I'm done with you". That is enough to prick a nerve, this is after all a gentoo forum.

Leo Laursen wrote:
I'm not changing distro because of systemd, it's just that I have to reinstall anyway.

Well, no, be honest, your just done with the relationship and wanted everyone to know how badly the other party treated you.

Leo Laursen wrote:
I am however rather pissed about being harasssed for mentioning systemd on these forums. Maybe that's what you are picking up on.

I think "harrassed" would be an emotionally charged overstatement, systemd is, for many reasons, a prickly subject and so you can expect some level of "discussion" of the whole question. If you feel you've been treated unfairly due to your being an advocate then you have every recourse to take it up with the forum moderators, or to devrel. There is nothing stoping you from arguing your case in the forum, and any "harrassement" should be delt with as it would with any other violation of the Gentoo CoC. That said, this is a place where you can expect those discussions to occur, and so recognising the difference between criticism and animosity is crucial.

best ... khay
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I think will take this opportunity to change to another distro.

No one is stopping you.
Fedora uses systemd by default.
And probably others too.
Gerard.
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Leo Laursen
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:23 pm    Post subject: Re: binutils-2.23 doesn't work on systemd only system (-open Reply with quote

khayyam wrote:
Leo Laursen wrote:
This was just a warning in case others, like me, had removed sysvinit and openrc.
Leo ... well, thats not really how your message reads, its not so much a warning but a statement of fact ... it broke for some (unstated) reason and your switching distros. Such a statement is easily interpreted as "farewell ... and you suck".

Yeah well, I think a statement of fact is warning enough.
khayyam wrote:
Note: systemd is ~arch, binutils-2.23 is ~arch ... and with ~arch you can expect that things will break, or fail to work as expected, from time to time. Also, ~arch requires some understanding of how to fix things should they break, and/or how to revert to a previous working state. Your current impass is no doubt fixable, but your responce is to point at the distro as the problem, and like some failed relationship call "I'm done with you". That is enough to prick a nerve, this is after all a gentoo forum.
Leo Laursen wrote:
I'm not changing distro because of systemd, it's just that I have to reinstall anyway.

Well, no, be honest, your just done with the relationship and wanted everyone to know how badly the other party treated you.

I believe you once accused me of putting words in your mouth, now you're doing it to me.

khayyam wrote:
Leo Laursen wrote:
I am however rather pissed about being harasssed for mentioning systemd on these forums. Maybe that's what you are picking up on.

I think "harrassed" would be an emotionally charged overstatement, systemd is, for many reasons, a prickly subject and so you can expect some level of "discussion" of the whole question. If you feel you've been treated unfairly due to your being an advocate then you have every recourse to take it up with the forum moderators, or to devrel. There is nothing stoping you from arguing your case in the forum, and any "harrassement" should be delt with as it would with any other violation of the Gentoo CoC. That said, this is a place where you can expect those discussions to occur, and so recognising the difference between criticism and animosity is crucial.
best ... khay

For the love of God, I'm not, and have never been an advocate of systemd.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:23 pm    Post subject: Re: binutils-2.23 doesn't work on systemd only system (-open Reply with quote

Leo Laursen wrote:
khayyam wrote:
[...] thats not really how your message reads, its not so much a warning but a statement of fact ... it broke for some (unstated) reason and your switching distros. Such a statement is easily interpreted as "farewell ... and you suck".

Yeah well, I think a statement of fact is warning enough.

Leo ... I'd disagree, a statement of fact is much like "I am writing this sentence", whereas a warning provides information as to the reasoning involved.

khayyam wrote:
Note: systemd is ~arch, binutils-2.23 is ~arch ... and with ~arch you can expect that things will break, or fail to work as expected, from time to time. Also, ~arch requires some understanding of how to fix things should they break, and/or how to revert to a previous working state. Your current impass is no doubt fixable, but your responce is to point at the distro as the problem, and like some failed relationship call "I'm done with you". That is enough to prick a nerve, this is after all a gentoo forum.

No comment on this section of my post?

Leo Laursen wrote:
khayyam wrote:
Leo Laursen wrote:
I'm not changing distro because of systemd, it's just that I have to reinstall anyway.

Well, no, be honest, your just done with the relationship and wanted everyone to know how badly the other party treated you.

I believe you once accused me of putting words in your mouth, now you're doing it to me.

No, I never accused you of anything, I said "its best not to", nor am I putting words in your mouth, I'm simply providing what I think is implicit in the message.

Leo Laursen wrote:
khayyam wrote:
Leo Laursen wrote:
I am however rather pissed about being harasssed for mentioning systemd on these forums.

I think "harrassed" would be an emotionally charged overstatement, systemd is, for many reasons, a prickly subject and so you can expect some level of "discussion" of the whole question. If you feel you've been treated unfairly due to your being an advocate then you have every recourse to take it up with the forum moderators, or to devrel. There is nothing stoping you from arguing your case in the forum, and any "harrassement" should be delt with as it would with any other violation of the Gentoo CoC. That said, this is a place where you can expect those discussions to occur, and so recognising the difference between criticism and animosity is crucial.

For the love of God, I'm not, and have never been an advocate of systemd.

How is this pertinant to my comment? I'm responding to your claim of harrasment having "mention[ed] systemd on these forums". Whether a user or advocate it doesn't particularly matter for the context provided. So, rather than respond to the guts of the matter, you select the word "advocate" and respond to that, and of course thats easily countered, but the argument is nothing less than a distraction from having to respond to the point I was making. Such a method of argumentation is so common that there is a term to describe it: the switch of focus.

best ... khay
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: binutils-2.23 doesn't work on systemd only system (-open Reply with quote

Leo Laursen wrote:
After upgrading binutils to version 2.23 I'm unable to compile.
There was some errors with /etc/init.d/functions.sh not found.
Your issue is the exact reason for the existence of this overlay:
git://github.com/canek-pelaez/gentoo-systemd-only
It provides an extra functions.sh script. But it might not be ready yet for the newest binutils package
...
And:
- you could file a bug against binutils: The package should explicitly depend on openrc
- there is no reason to purge openrc if you want a smooth running systemd!
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:36 pm    Post subject: Re: binutils-2.23 doesn't work on systemd only system (-open Reply with quote

/etc/init.d/functions.sh is provided in baselayout and several
tools for portage depend. (They can freely assume that this
script exists since it's in baselayout.)

Mostly, the shell scripts depending on /etc/init.d/functions.sh
seem too work with reduced printing functions, but binutils-config
seriously breaks. Since it is used to change the symlinks after
a binutils update this probably broke your build system.

To recover create a dummy /etc/init.d/functions.sh with replacements
for einfo, eerror, ewarn... (a printf should be enough) and run
binutils-config.

Edit: Too late... Sorry for the noise.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:41 am    Post subject: Re: binutils-2.23 doesn't work on systemd only system (-open Reply with quote

heiwa wrote:
/etc/init.d/functions.sh is provided in baselayout and several
tools for portage depend. (They can freely assume that this
script exists since it's in baselayout.)

Mostly, the shell scripts depending on /etc/init.d/functions.sh
seem too work with reduced printing functions, but binutils-config
seriously breaks. Since it is used to change the symlinks after
a binutils update this probably broke your build system.

To recover create a dummy /etc/init.d/functions.sh with replacements
for einfo, eerror, ewarn... (a printf should be enough) and run
binutils-config.

Edit: Too late... Sorry for the noise.


i had the same problem when starting from official stage3 and installing systemd (or switching to ~arch profile) and encountering a blocker. i think i unmerged a wrong package and that broke things for me.
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