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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prenj wrote:
Thing about Biden, while he did way better then Obama, this end stuff about him being all for the middle class and not for Wall Street doesn't have any credit anymore.

Democrats are running with rethorics of what they should be about, but they are not. That's the conundrum :?

Credibility is an important issue here. Obama set high expectations for the last four years and made a lot of promises, and he didn't deliver, while putting one-third of the money he spent on the people's credit card. Now they're trying to point at the other guys and say, "Don't listen to them, they're deceiving you and their numbers don't add up." It's a bit hollow.

Nevertheless, Biden's nonverbal communication was excellent (except for a couple of serious fits of stammering and one time when he rambled right past the end of what he had to say and was just spouting words). It was almost like he studied the Romney performance in the last debate, and made sure to deliver exactly that, to appease the bellyaching mass of disappointed Obama followers. It was a little over-the-top, actually, but generally not so far as to cause a backfire effect.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm dissapointed with Biden, i was expecting something better than just "this is a bunch of stuff". While i did laugh, he's usually better than that. Ryan has one move i can't really stand, he moves his head around like a woman saying "oh no, you didn't".
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GabrielYYZ wrote:
I'm dissapointed with Biden, i was expecting something better than just "this is a bunch of stuff". While i did laugh, he's usually better than that. Ryan has one move i can't really stand, he moves his head around like a woman saying "oh no, you didn't".

Don't be disappointed. For Biden, that was truly excellent. You're lucky he didn't say "a bunch of shit" or go off a tangent accidentally agreeing with the opponent's position or something. He reversed a few words here and there. People will eventually pick some of it apart. But overall, he did as well as anybody could have hoped, and I'm sure Obama and Axelrod are breathing huge sighs of relief and rubbing anti-spasm cream on their painfully-clenched sphincters.

I did think it was pretty pathetic when he tried to blame the destruction of the Libyan embassy and those killings on Republican budget-cutting. We had the money to defeat the government there but can't afford to guard our own embassy? That was complete bullshit, and I can't imagine anybody is going to buy that. They should learn to tell the truth once in a while and just admit they made a mistake by relying upon the locals for security. Why create a scandal right before the election? Better to be blamed for an honest mistake than a stupid decision followed by an obvious cover-up initiated right from the White House, especially when this election hinges to a great degree on the credibility of the candidates.

Ryan is also young enough that he hasn't had the obligatory Botox yet, and I've become accustomed to politicians foreheads not wrinkling and them never raising their eyebrows. :lol:

He also talks too fast. Most people can't absorb information that fast. Speaking more slowly and at a measured pace gives you time to think while you are speaking, and avoid unnecessary pauses (important in debating, because if you pause, the other guy, or the moderator, takes it as an invitation to jump in). Also, it lends an air of weight and credibility to what you are saying. This Biden did much better.

As well as Romney did, he too speaks a little too rapidly at times.

I don't think was the ass-stomping that Obama got (Ryan wasn't hanging his head and didn't look like a deer in the headlights, which Obama literally did a few times). But I give it to Biden for his delivery.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Biden's repeated, and forceful, yelling at the woman was the best part for me. He kept looking at Obama's friend and chastising her for daring to ask questions. It was quite entertaining.

My wife asked me why he was yelling at Raddatz the whole time... I just kept pointing out that Biden is a clueless clown and will do whatever he has to do to convince the illiterati to stick with keeping BO next month.

Biden contradicted the sworn testimony of the State Department, and was the single most disrespectful debater I've ever seen on the national stage... and I do remember Carter ~v~ Reagan.

All in all, he came across as a mindless bully/clown. So, BRAVO!!!! Great job Joe, you've helped Romney.

Proverbs 29~9 wrote:
When a wise man has a controversy with a foolish man, The foolish man either rages or laughs, and there is no rest.


Wise words :lol:
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Lord, I have a non-Christian to thank for quoting the scripture to make me feel better about this. 8O

Good job on your choice of translation, too. I've always thought the NASB was the best. 8)
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
Dear Lord, I have a non-Christian to thank for quoting the scripture to make me feel better about this. 8O


You're welcome ;)
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reuters calls it a tie.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/12/us-usa-campaign-debate-analysis-idUSBRE89B09420121012

A surprising observation from Reuters:
Quote:
When it was Ryan's turn to speak, Biden laughed, scoffed and interrupted. The antics were sure to bolster Biden's reputation as a slightly unhinged gaffe machine and provide fodder for late-night television satirists.

"The happiest people in the country after this debate are going to be the writers at 'Saturday Night Live,'" Steinberg said.

Sure enough, the Republican National Committee quickly released an online compilation of Biden's smirks called "Laughing at the Issues."


With respect the effects of the Presidential debate:
Quote:
Republican enthusiasm for Romney has skyrocketed since last week's debate, which was widely seen as a clear victory for the former Massachusetts governor. Some 51 percent of Republicans said they held a "very favorable" opinion of Romney this week, up from 37 percent in the week before the debate, according to Reuters/Ipsos polling data.

Democratic enthusiasm for Obama has fallen over the same time period from 63 percent to 51 percent, according to the data.

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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Biden would've won that decisively had he not come off as so arrogant.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCtemaHgjyA

The laughing is a classic Democrat appeal to ridicule. It means they have given up on independents (who will just be turned off by it) and are desperately trying to hang on to their demoralized base (the only people brainwashed enough to find all that scoffing and laughing justified.

You know who else did a lot of that? Al Gore.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was reading CNN.com and their poll said Ryan was the winner, albeit within the margin of error. Then I was reading the comments in a CNBC Google+ post, and they all said that Biden was the winner, and they were excited about it. Then it hit me. The purpose of Biden's performance wasn't to persuade independents, it was to revitalize the base. The base was happy with his behavior.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

richk449 wrote:
juniper wrote:
i take it you mean "objectivism". I don't like her arguments. Then again, I admit to reading only a little of her writings. I am in between books, but I don't know if I want to waste it on her.

Read Atlas Shrugged. Lousy writing, but a good story and interesting ideas.


the thing is 1200 pages long. Like a modern action movie director, gotta be more succinct.

anything else?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmitchell wrote:
Biden sure is a bully. Both of these guys are totally full of shit.


you're too harsh. these are two honest men engaging in a great exchange... ah shit, I can't even type it with a straight face. :lol:
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Biden is no Palin, as Muso led me to believe. neither is ryan. congratulations republicans! I guess you learned your lesson from the last cycle.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Biden is less professional than Ryan. Comes off as a a bit uncouth.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
richk449 wrote:
Read Atlas Shrugged. Lousy writing, but a good story and interesting ideas.


the thing is 1200 pages long. Like a modern action movie director, gotta be more succinct.

anything else?


The Fountainhead.... but Atlas Shrugged is a better story. You really should read it before passing such criticism on her... even if your opinion remains unchanged about her, they will at least be informed opinions at that point.

juniper wrote:
Biden is less professional than Ryan. Comes off as a a bit uncouth.


Fitting, no?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just perfect
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juniper
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Just perfect


it seems to me he is in some way obama's "man of the people". I mean arugula munching harvard educated obama doesn't know what the common man is about, but this guy does. I mean EVERYONE washes their trans am without a shirt on, no?

Speaking of washing cars, we have yet to wash or vacuum ours. owned since feb 2009. it's kind of gross. I have taken a little dust broom to the inside once a year though.
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juniper
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:

The Fountainhead.... but Atlas Shrugged is a better story. You really should read it before passing such criticism on her... even if your opinion remains unchanged about her, they will at least be informed opinions at that point.


I have read about objectivism, but not her books.

In any case, about the 1200 pages. No time man. got two kids under 5, job etc. that's 3-4 books i will likely enjoy more. gotta ration.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

biden definitely came off looking like a fucking jerk... he was just dripping with contempt... at least obama kept his face down to hide his contempt. CNN had their little happy meter on the bottom and every time biden started attacking "his friend" the CNN peanut gallery shifted negative.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
Then it hit me. The purpose of Biden's performance wasn't to persuade independents, it was to revitalize the base. The base was happy with his behavior.


Exactly!!! Isn't this what the VP debate is usually about anyway? Charging up the base? No surprise that you hear democrats saying that Biden crushed Ryan like he was a scared child caught in a lie, and you hear the Republicans saying that Ryan's presidential demeanor totally won out over Biden's buffoonery. Independents are left frustrated and annoyed by the whole thing because if you listened closely both candidates squirmed their way out of answering most of the questions and instead spent the session pointing their fingers at each other.

The debates aren't about intellectualism. They're about showmanship.
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McGruff
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the opposition can only complain about your teeth I think that shows Ryan lost pretty convincingly. Biden had substance, grasp of detail, and was quick on his feet. The quip about Kennedy was cheeky but hammering Ryan on requests for the stimulus cash he'd just been criticising was a mortal blow. All this talk about respect is baloney. At least Biden didn't try to fire the moderator mid-debate.

Like the rest of his party, Ryan entered the arena arrogantly expecting an easy win against old man Biden. Unfortunately, when the dust settled, he came third - behind Biden and Martha Raddatz.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
If the opposition can only complain about your teeth I think that shows Ryan lost pretty convincingly. Biden had substance, grasp of detail, and was quick on his feet. The quip about Kennedy was cheeky but hammering Ryan on requests for the stimulus cash he'd just been criticising was a mortal blow. All this talk about respect is baloney. At least Biden didn't try to fire the moderator mid-debate.

Like the rest of his party, Ryan entered the arena arrogantly expecting an easy win against old man Biden. Unfortunately, when the dust settled, he came third - behind Biden and Martha Raddatz.

As usual, you are wrong. Biden came off as a typical lefty douche bag (I know, there is no other kind of lefty).

Even the CNN poll had Ryan winning.

I thought Biden did a good job. He seemed awake and was even able to remember his own name.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/536315_165442603580028_1836552212_n.jpg
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't see the whole debate: did anyone ask Biden about all the children he has killed? Or the lives he has turned into waking nightmares?
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmitchell wrote:
I didn't see the whole debate: did anyone ask Biden about all the children he has killed? Or the lives he has turned into waking nightmares?

Nope. Nor his history of plagiarism.
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