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ichbinsisyphos
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:57 pm    Post subject: period and comma within quotes Reply with quote

This is something that really made me want to go all-out grammar nazi for some time.

Example:
dmitchell wrote:
... by the infamous "sleeping defense attorney," but the second conviction is shocking.

I only recently began to notice this and I thought of it as a particularly annoying mistake. I mean how could you again and again make the comma part of the quote? WHAT THE FUCK WENT WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE???

So I tried to find some reason for this grammar retardation epidemic and Google search produced this:

http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/marks/quotation.htm#footnote
Quote:
There are peculiar typographical reasons why the period and comma go inside the quotation mark in the United States. The following explanation comes from the "Frequently Asked Questions" file of alt.english.usage: "In the days when printing used raised bits of metal, "." and "," were the most delicate, and were in danger of damage (the face of the piece of type might break off from the body, or be bent or dented from above) if they had a '"' on one side and a blank space on the other. Hence the convention arose of always using '."' and ',"' rather than '".' and '",', regardless of logic." This seems to be an argument to return to something more logical, but there is little impetus to do so within the United States.


They do this on purpose.


Don't forget to change this rule back to something sane. Maybe when you switch to the metric system would a good time.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, it's a U.S. thing. I often follow the British rule on this, in situations where I think it makes things clearer. The rule has never made sense to me, and I violate it regularly in protest. :lol:
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Old School
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always held to the US way, and now that I know that ichbintroll hates it, I will continue to do so with fervent gusto.

As Bonekracker said, "Yeah, it's a U.S. thing."
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sikpuppy
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

King Henry the Eighth had sex 24 hours after he died.
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Clad in Sky
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
As Bonekracker said, "Yeah, it's a U.S. thing."

I think this won't annoy "ichbinsisyphos."
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dmitchell
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Happy to have been of service.
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ichbinsisyphos
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen this in British online newspapers too, btw.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/9610073/MPs-will-get-to-vote-on-EU-powers-opt-out.html wrote:
“The Government is committed to a vote on this matter,


THE CANCER HAS ALREADY SPREAD OVER THE ATLANTIC!
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wildhorse
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If there is something that could be screwed up by flipping things, then that's exactly how it is being done in the USA.
Currency unit <-> number, month <-> day year etc.

USA. :lol:
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dmitchell
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laugh all you want but at least we figured out a way to not constantly break our printers.
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ichbinsisyphos
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What if you want to quote something that already has punctuation at the end?

Is anyone of you a bad enough dude write something like this?
Quote:
As Bonekracker said, "Yeah, it's a U.S. thing.."
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Old School
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmitchell wrote:
Laugh all you want but at least we figured out a way to not constantly break our printers.

Hell, it isn't until fairly recently that the Europeans printed anything other than Latin.
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richk449
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Yeah, it's a U.S. thing. I often follow the British rule on this, in situations where I think it makes things clearer. The rule has never made sense to me, and I violate it regularly in protest. :lol:

I always use the non-stupid form.
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Old School
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

richk449 wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Yeah, it's a U.S. thing. I often follow the British rule on this, in situations where I think it makes things clearer. The rule has never made sense to me, and I violate it regularly in protest. :lol:

I always use the non-stupid form.

So what is the "non-stupid form?"
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richk449
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
richk449 wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Yeah, it's a U.S. thing. I often follow the British rule on this, in situations where I think it makes things clearer. The rule has never made sense to me, and I violate it regularly in protest. :lol:

I always use the non-stupid form.

So what is the "non-stupid form?"

:D That would be the stupid one.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:47 am    Post subject: Re: period and comma within quotes Reply with quote

ichbinsisyphos wrote:
I only recently began to notice this and I thought of it as a particularly annoying mistake.
Well, at least now you know how to do it correctly.
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:15 am    Post subject: Re: period and comma within quotes Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
ichbinsisyphos wrote:
I only recently began to notice this and I thought of it as a particularly annoying mistake.
Well, at least now you know how to do it correctly.

I recommend this book; it's current, informative (particularly with regard to U.S./U.K. differences), and entertaining.
http://www.amazon.com/Eats-Shoots-Leaves-Tolerance-Punctuation/dp/1592402038

Lest that sound pretentious, I'll add that it's light reading (nicely laid out with just a bit per page), which makes it perfect bathroom reading. You can leave it by the toilet, and pick up a new lesson every time you have to drop a deuce.
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pjp
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll keep that in mind next time I need to communicate by letter in native UK. :P


I don't get hung up on UK vs. US differences like some people. I personally find them interesting. Then again, I also find menus by non-native English speakers interesting. Not for the mistakes, but what the mistakes are. Plural is most common. One of my favorites is "Sperral" (Special).
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, okay. Just don't go into some diner in West Virginia and say "I'll have the sperral."
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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Soviet Union resulted from punctuation as well. In 1905, the print-setters in St. Petersburg went on strike, demanding to be paid the same rate for punctuation as for letters, ultimately leading to the revolutions and the formation of the Soviet Union.
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BonezTheGoon
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was forced during my University studies to conform to the annoyance you are talking about. It was never explained to me why, and I had no idea it was localized to the US. Thanks for the history lesson!

I always thought it was bullshit as well.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
Just don't go into [...] West Virginia
You are wise beyond your years.
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BonezTheGoon
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
Just don't go into [...] West Virginia
You are wise beyond your years.

I snorted loudly! Hilarious!
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aCOSwt
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmitchell wrote:
Laugh all you want but at least we figured out a way to not constantly break our printers.

Laugh all you want but at least we had designed our quotation marks («») so that our printers could not break ! :roll:
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dmitchell
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aCOSwt wrote:
Laugh all you want but at least we had designed our quotation marks («») so that our printers could not break ! :roll:

:facepalm:
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thoroughly enjoyed Eats, Shoots, and Leaves. Her second book, not so much: way more militant.

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