Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
Debate: Obama vs Romney
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next  
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
McGruff
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 147

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
I'm glad you enjoyed those.


That was a mix-up. I was laughing at Sugar's post here. Now that was funny. The only surprise is that Bane didn't initiate a leveraged buy-out, load all the debt onto PBS, take a vast "consultancy" fee, and then fire him.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
richk449
Guru
Guru


Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 345

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
This is what happens, people, when you drink your own Kool Aid; you don't know where the lies stop and reality begins.

I think there is more truth than you realize in that statement.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
richk449
Guru
Guru


Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 345

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
Obama came prepared for a right-wing nut-job but instead faced a reasonable centrist. I'm just paraphrasing what I read somewhere.

I didn't hear all of the debate, but from what I saw, this is pretty accurate. It is a bit scary if Obama actually thought that Romney was going to run as his own caricature.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
richk449
Guru
Guru


Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 345

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
Romney is lying. He's lying about his plans for the economy and he's lying about the "studies" which support them. Deal with it.

Considering his previous record as a pragmatic centrist, isn't it much more likely that Romney was lying during the primaries, and is now telling the truth?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
richk449
Guru
Guru


Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 345

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
I call BS.

Then you have never worked with the government.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
richk449
Guru
Guru


Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 345

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Muso wrote:
Sasha Obama Asks Father Why He Was Acting Like Such A Pussy During Debate

:D
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Muso
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 656
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
He needs real ideas and real policies, not lies and half-truths.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

You actually believe Obama's bullshit!
_________________
http://howdovaccinescauseautism.com/
auf alten Schiffen lernt man Segeln.
YOU'RE NOT A LIBERAL!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
richk449
Guru
Guru


Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 345

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcgruff wrote:
Sure he was more aggressive in manner and Obama didn't really seem interested in locking horns for a "only one of us gets out of here alive" match up, but if you stopped to listen to what they were actually saying... Romney is not going to win anything simply by swaggering around acting like he knows what he's doing. He needs real ideas and real policies, not lies and half-truths.

You really don't know anything about politics, do you?

Chopinzee, you ruined my string of posts.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1566
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

richk449 wrote:
notageek wrote:
Obama came prepared for a right-wing nut-job but instead faced a reasonable centrist. I'm just paraphrasing what I read somewhere.

I didn't hear all of the debate, but from what I saw, this is pretty accurate. It is a bit scary if Obama actually thought that Romney was going to run as his own caricature.

I think that is only part of it. The larger part is that his campaign is entirely build upon deception, and it was simply less risky for him to take a whipping in the debate than to put the lies on the table to be dissected and attributed directly to him.

He tried it with one, and it was a mistake. His most widely broadcast and over-played campaign ad is based on the claim that Romney is going to raise taxes on the middle class and give a huge tax break to millionaires. Romney flatly denied it, explained the revenue-neutral nature of lowering base tax rates and closing deductions that don't stimulate economic growth. Now, Obama's claim has gone from being a truism in the liberal echo chamber to being closely scrutinized and at best, a half-truth. (In fact it's revenue-positive, because it has a very real stimulative effect, which is what we need more than anything right now.)

Oh, he tried it was another and got his dick put in the dirt. The "tax breaks for shipping jobs overseas" bullshit. Now that's dead and he can't use it anymore, not with any credibility. But he had to say something, or he'd have just looked like a punching bag. What's he going to talk about? The great job he did? I killed bin Laden?

This wasn't just a "one guy looked sweaty and nervous, so he lost" kind of debate. They sparred intellectually on the actual issues -- it was a real debate, as they are intended to be -- and Romney took him apart logically, piece by piece, despite the moderator favoring Obama with an extra five minutes of speaking time. If you don't think so, go back and watch it again.

Perhaps most important of all, Romney came across as being ready to take on the job, honest, and genuinely concerned about people's well-being, and Obama came across tired, defeated, and like a four year old with a load in his pants.

The liberal media will spend days trying to spin it another way, but we heard the truth last night in their first reactions.
_________________
pjp wrote:
I didn't misquote you, I just misunderstood you.


Last edited by Bones McCracker on Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:15 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
notageek
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 120
Location: Bangalore, India

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like this better: http://www.theonion.com/articles/mitt-romney-adopts-new-ronnie-ferocious-persona-fo,29789/

Mitt Romney Adopts New ‘Ronnie Ferocious’ Persona For Debates
_________________
The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand? --Capt Jack Sparrow.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
richk449
Guru
Guru


Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 345

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
I think that is only part of it. The larger part is that his campaign is entirely build upon deception, and it was simply less risky for him to take a whipping in the debate than to put the lies on the table to be dissected and attributed directly to him.

All campaigns are built on deception. If a politician actually told the hard truth, he would have no chance at getting elected.

Quote:
His most widely broadcast and over-played campaign ad is based on the claim that Romney is going to raise taxes on the middle class and give a huge tax break to millionaires. Romney flatly denied it, explained the revenue-neutral nature of lowering base tax rates and closing deductions that don't stimulate economic growth.

Perfect example of my previous statement. Romney is claiming that he will lower the base tax rate, eliminate deductions, and remain revenue-neutral, ensuring that the middle class does not see a tax increase. The numbers don't add up, and Romney's bullshit about tax cuts increasing economic performance is just wishfull thinking - even he is too embarassed to mention that Laffer curve to justify it.

Quote:
Perhaps most important of all, Romney came across as being ready to take on the job, honest, and genuinely concerned about people's well-being, and Obama came across tired, defeated, and like a kid caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

Perhaps. I didn't see anything, I only heard some of it on the radio. From what I heard, they both sounded like their usual selves. I wonder how much of the reaction is based on the visuals?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1566
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess some lemmings are surprised that Romney is not who the Obama campaign has characterized him to be. :lol:

They're also trying to spin it like he "bullied" the moderator or Obama, but it's just not so. The moderator gave Obama five extra minutes of talking time. How much would he gave given him if Romney had not insisted on being allowed to speak?

He wasn't "ferocious"; he was polite and respectful and carried on a good debate. Go back and watch it again if you don't think so.
_________________
pjp wrote:
I didn't misquote you, I just misunderstood you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dmitchell
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 17 May 2003
Posts: 1159
Location: Austin, Texas

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anybody have a highlights reel?
_________________
Your argument is invalid.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
notageek
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 120
Location: Bangalore, India

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plenty on YouTube. Just showing up everywhere.

BBC's key moments of the debate: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19824380
_________________
The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand? --Capt Jack Sparrow.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dmitchell
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 17 May 2003
Posts: 1159
Location: Austin, Texas

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

richk449 wrote:
Romney's bullshit about tax cuts increasing economic performance is just wishfull thinking

Increasing economic performance: I guess that means something like "producing more stuff that people want to buy." If the government takes a smaller cut of each economic transaction, will more stuff be produced that people want to buy? I don't know but it sounds plausible. I'm certainly not ready to write it off as bullshit.
_________________
Your argument is invalid.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1566
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

richk449 wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
I think that is only part of it. The larger part is that his campaign is entirely build upon deception, and it was simply less risky for him to take a whipping in the debate than to put the lies on the table to be dissected and attributed directly to him.

All campaigns are built on deception. If a politician actually told the hard truth, he would have no chance at getting elected.

You are using black-and-white thinking. All politicians lie, and all campaigns on built on deception to some extent. All politicians are not equally dishonest. What became clear here is that, when you take away the lies and propaganda, Obama's campaign is almost all chaff and no wheat, and that his claims do not stand up to unbiased scrutiny under the full light of day.

richk449 wrote:
Quote:
His most widely broadcast and over-played campaign ad is based on the claim that Romney is going to raise taxes on the middle class and give a huge tax break to millionaires. Romney flatly denied it, explained the revenue-neutral nature of lowering base tax rates and closing deductions that don't stimulate economic growth.

Perfect example of my previous statement. Romney is claiming that he will lower the base tax rate, eliminate deductions, and remain revenue-neutral, ensuring that the middle class does not see a tax increase. The numbers don't add up, and Romney's bullshit about tax cuts increasing economic performance is just wishfull thinking - even he is too embarassed to mention that Laffer curve to justify it.

You can't just say "the numbers don't add up", and don't cite some bullshit "study" by a left-wing think tank. If you were intellectually honest you would say "it's debatable".

But you know what really didn't add up and was never even debatable? When Obama said he was going to increase spending by $800 billion and not increase the deficit. That was patently obvious. This is at least plausible, and there are as many people saying it does add up and that it makes sense as there are people saying otherwise.

It's also a hell of lot more detail than Obama provided on his plans last election, and a hell of a lot more than what he's providing now (other than his existing budget, which will have us in debt by another trillion dollars by next year with unemployment probably right about where is now).

richk449 wrote:
Quote:
Perhaps most important of all, Romney came across as being ready to take on the job, honest, and genuinely concerned about people's well-being, and Obama came across tired, defeated, and like a kid caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

Perhaps. I didn't see anything, I only heard some of it on the radio. From what I heard, they both sounded like their usual selves. I wonder how much of the reaction is based on the visuals?

I think you should watch it.
_________________
pjp wrote:
I didn't misquote you, I just misunderstood you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1566
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmitchell wrote:
Anybody have a highlights reel?

You need to watch the whole thing for yourself. If you watch somebody's highlights, you are subjecting yourself to their interpretation.

I even made a point of watching it on CSPAN to completely avoid hearing anyone's commentary or extra bullshit on the screen about what the lemmings are feeling positive or negative at the moment.

What were you going to watch tonight that's more important? South Park?
_________________
pjp wrote:
I didn't misquote you, I just misunderstood you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dmitchell
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 17 May 2003
Posts: 1159
Location: Austin, Texas

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
You need to watch the whole thing for yourself. If you watch somebody's highlights, you are subjecting yourself to their interpretation.

That's true. On the other hand, (a) if I watch the whole thing for myself, then I am subjecting myself to that, and (b) I have already subjected myself to the interpretation of you lot, so that cat's already out of the bag.

Quote:
What were you going to watch tonight that's more important? South Park?

Is South Park on? That would be more important than watching two gas bag politicians. Truthfully, I was going to play Civ or do some programming. You guys have piqued my curiosity.
_________________
Your argument is invalid.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
notageek
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 120
Location: Bangalore, India

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obama says he didn't debate Romney but a double.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19835176
_________________
The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand? --Capt Jack Sparrow.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bones McCracker
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1566
Location: U.S.A.

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"But it couldn't have been Mitt Romney, because the real Mitt Romney has been running around the country for the last year promising $5 trillion in tax cuts that favour the wealthy. The fellow on stage last night said he didn't know anything about that."

No, Mr. Oblabla. You have been running around the country for the last year telling the lie that Romney is going to give a $4 trillion tax cut to the wealthy, and fund it by raising taxes on the middle class. Romney has been running around saying he knows how to get the economy back on track, which you have demonstrated you do not.

Fiscal policy is not a simple matter of a basic tax rate. Deductions play a very important role, particularly for high earners. Many, many deductions have been added over the years, to encourage them to invest or spend money in this or that, typically being things that don't offer as a high a return as others, but provide some other kind of benefit to society.

What Romney is saying that, in order to stimulate the economy without borrowing trillions more for more government "stimulus" spending, and then put the burden of paying that back on your children, we can alter the tax code to encourage substantially higher investment in things that actually do contribute to economic growth and hiring. By temporarily lowering the base tax rates and closing the equivalent (in dollar value) amount of deductions that are not oriented at economic growth, we can keep people paying the same amount in tax while simultaneously encouraging and enabling them to invest more in growing the economy.

There will be temporary social consequences. Non-profits and not-for-profits will probably suffer temporarily. But that is preferable to doing nothing or accumulating still more interest-accumulating public debt. If somebody wants to make an intellectually honest objection, it should be based around this issue. The tax code has been shaped over the years to cause the wealthy to do things with their money that benefits society in certain ways. Changing that to focus on economic growth puts economic growth and jobs ahead of other priorities, like museums, libraries, or what have you.

What is not an honest argument is that "the numbers don't add up". The numbers can be made to add up, by limiting the size of the rate reduction to the amount of non-stimulative deductions available to be closed.

Also, claiming that economic growth cannot be relied upon to increase tax revenue is the pot calling the kettle black. Every financial planning document produced by the Obama administration, from his budgets to his legislative proposals to the always-changing analysis of Obamacare, has included estimates of economic growth (optimistic ones, as it has turned out). At least this time they're being used to justify something that actually stimulative to the economy, not something that puts a drag on it.
_________________
pjp wrote:
I didn't misquote you, I just misunderstood you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
richk449
Guru
Guru


Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 345

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmitchell wrote:
richk449 wrote:
Romney's bullshit about tax cuts increasing economic performance is just wishfull thinking

Increasing economic performance: I guess that means something like "producing more stuff that people want to buy." If the government takes a smaller cut of each economic transaction, will more stuff be produced that people want to buy? I don't know but it sounds plausible. I'm certainly not ready to write it off as bullshit.

Sorry, poorly worded on my part. Romney's argument that tax cuts will increase government revenue enough to make the numbers work out is bullshit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
richk449
Guru
Guru


Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 345

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmitchell wrote:
Anybody have a highlights reel?

Debate Highlights Songified
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
notageek
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 120
Location: Bangalore, India

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

richk449 wrote:
dmitchell wrote:
Anybody have a highlights reel?

Debate Highlights Songified
Thank you.
_________________
The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand? --Capt Jack Sparrow.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Muso
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 656
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Biden Implores Obama To 'Rub One Out' Before Debate

Quote:
DENVER—Noting that tonight’s debate against Mitt Romney would last a full hour and a half, Vice President Joe Biden reportedly urged President Obama to “rub one out” so that he could “get pussy off the mind” before taking the stage at 9 p.m. Eastern time. “Look, Barry, you need to keep your head in the game up there, and you sure as shit can’t focus if you’ve got a full load flaring up inside you,” said Biden, telling Obama he should feel free to think about the first lady, “Jill [Biden], or whoever pops into your head while you’re polishing the ol’ Capitol dome.” “Hell, I must’ve yanked the crank a good eight or nine times before my debate with Sarah Palin back in ’08…and a few times after, too, if you catch my drift.” At press time, sources reported seeing the president enter a private bathroom with Biden’s “rare and always reliable” January 1979 edition of Playboy.

_________________
http://howdovaccinescauseautism.com/
auf alten Schiffen lernt man Segeln.
YOU'RE NOT A LIBERAL!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wswartzendruber
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 1224
Location: Jefferson, USA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw the headline, noticed who it was about, and believed it until I saw where it was from.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Page 6 of 9

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum