Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
'official' packaging guide?
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

 
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Gentoo Chat
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
avx
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 2128

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:54 pm    Post subject: 'official' packaging guide? Reply with quote

// sry, no better title in my brain :evil:

So, I'd like to know, if there are official guidelines as to what is not allowed to be packaged - official as decided by trustees, foundation, ... - and if that's available, where is it?

Reason for this is, that in this thread @NeddySeagoon (forums admin, don't know if also dev) states
Quote:
If systemd becomes a prerequsite for GNOME, its time to drop GNOME.

I'd like to know if that's the official stand on this topic or his personal opinion.

I share this opinion and also the "Gentoo is about choice" saying, but I'd like to know if there's a list of things which are a no-go.
_________________
++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aCOSwt
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 19 Oct 2007
Posts: 2537
Location: Hilbert space

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I second this question.
And on an even wider range of topics. Are there official guidelines of any kind ?

<joking>
Well, for the sole sake of coherency, I hope there are not, just because...
If following such guidelines becomes a prerequisite for packaging, then... it would be time to drop packaging... :wink:
</joking>
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
avx
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 2128

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Our tools should be a joy to use, and should help the user to appreciate the richness of the Linux and free software community, and the flexibility of free software. This is only possible when the tool is designed to reflect and transmit the will of the user, and leave the possibilities open as to the final form of the raw materials (the source code.) If the tool forces the user to do things a particular way, then the tool is working against, rather than for, the user.
http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/philosophy.xml (though this is from D.Robbins, don't know if that's been overhauled.)

Edit, there are some "policy and guideline" links in the /docs/ part of the mainpage, but nothing related to this very topic.
_________________
++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yngwin
Developer
Developer


Joined: 19 Dec 2002
Posts: 4414
Location: Suzhou, China

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:00 am    Post subject: Re: 'official' packaging guide? Reply with quote

There is no definitive no-go list. In principle anything is possible, within legal limits.

Quote:
Quote:
If systemd becomes a prerequsite for GNOME, its time to drop GNOME.

I'd like to know if that's the official stand on this topic or his personal opinion.

That is definitely his personal opinion, but one that is shared by many Gentoo devs.
_________________
"Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves." - Abraham Lincoln
Free Culture | Defective by Design | EFF
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
avx
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 2128

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
That is definitely his personal opinion, but one that is shared by many Gentoo devs.
Given that I think it's guaranteed GNOME/systemd will go this route in the next 1-2 years, what will be the way the devs are supposed to act?

a) as long as enough people step up and it's technically possible, do heavy patching and keep it in the tree?
b) keep the latest non-problematic version in the tree and alive?
c) completely drop everything GNOME and systemd enforcing stuff?
d) something else?

Personally, I don't care for GNOME3+, giving what I think Gentoo's target audience is, I think KDE is also a unneccesary burden, but at least (for now) not overtaking our systems - anyway, not relevant here.

But really, why no major plan/guide?
_________________
++++++++++[>+++++++>++++++++++>+++>+<<<<-]>++.>+.+++++++..+++.>++.<<+++++++++++++++.>.+++.------.--------.>+.>.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
krinn
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 4433

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think if gentoo support the udev fork http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-934678-highlight-udev+fork.html as this already is against the user, a distro will sent a message to them, and that's better than "no need to listen to dumb crying users". Others distros that are quiet bored too might follow now a supported fork exist.

This is the only way maybe gnome devs will see that path is a dead end and step back to a sane situtation, else gnome is dead.

i say "c" choice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yngwin
Developer
Developer


Joined: 19 Dec 2002
Posts: 4414
Location: Suzhou, China

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

avx wrote:
Quote:
That is definitely his personal opinion, but one that is shared by many Gentoo devs.
Given that I think it's guaranteed GNOME/systemd will go this route in the next 1-2 years, what will be the way the devs are supposed to act?

a) as long as enough people step up and it's technically possible, do heavy patching and keep it in the tree?
b) keep the latest non-problematic version in the tree and alive?
c) completely drop everything GNOME and systemd enforcing stuff?
d) something else?

Since systemd is already in the tree and has a dedicated maintainer, I foresee that our Gnome team (which is understaffed as it is) will eventually end up going the path of least resistance and simply require systemd as dependency when it becomes too much work to keep it going without that. But really you should ask them. I wouldn't touch Gnome with a 10-foot pole as it is.

Since Gentoo is about choice, I would expect this choice will be offered as such to our users. Those who want to stay away from systemd (and inevitably other lennartware) simply will have to stay away from GnomeOS in the future.
_________________
"Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves." - Abraham Lincoln
Free Culture | Defective by Design | EFF
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dr.Willy
Guru
Guru


Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 353
Location: NRW, Germany

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

avx wrote:
But really, why no major plan/guide?

What's the point?
Ideally Gentoo would fork both KDE and Gnome and make them super modular. Of course we don't have the resources to do that.
If we had no resources at all Gentoo would have to drop both KDE and Gnome. Fortunatly we have some people taking care of them.
So the plan, as usual, is to do whatever people volunteer to do.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yngwin
Developer
Developer


Joined: 19 Dec 2002
Posts: 4414
Location: Suzhou, China

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr.Willy wrote:
Ideally Gentoo would fork both KDE and Gnome and make them super modular.

KDE is already going that direction on its own. It's only Gnome that is enamoured with this vertical integration idea.
_________________
"Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves." - Abraham Lincoln
Free Culture | Defective by Design | EFF
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
M
Guru
Guru


Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 427

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think some major plan is needed. If Gnome team can keep up with that Gnome OS thingy then great, users will have the choice.
It will depend on systemd which is already in portage. If they can not keep up, I think option c) is most likely to happen.It will probably end up in some gnome-os overlay. There were also no plan for E17 but we have that for years, and we had different init systems to choose etc.

Problem is more how we can stop spreading this disease (pulseaudio, *kits, systemd+udev). I hope udev fork will be successful and more distros will maintain it.

As for KDE, they work on spliting the kdelibs and standalone kwin. Gnome is really lost, I have no hope left...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Gentoo Chat All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum