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pjp
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:03 am    Post subject: Secretly filmed video of Mitt reveals ungarded views Reply with quote

Secretly filmed video of Mitt Romney, apparently at fundraiser, reveals unguarded views

Quote:
“It’s shocking that a candidate for president of the United States would go behind closed doors and declare to a group of wealthy donors that half the American people view themselves as ‘victims,’ entitled to handouts, and are unwilling to take ‘personal responsibility’ for their lives,” Messina said in a statment. “It’s hard to serve as president for all Americans when you’ve disdainfully written off half the nation.”

lol

I can't decide what to laugh at. That Romney was caught, that Messina doesn't think it is true, or that he thinks Obama (or any other President) doesn't "write off" half of the nation.

I have to think Romney never expected to win the nomination. And it is very difficult to believe he won Governor in MA.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, it's bad for Romney?

Wait, a BBC article is on it.

Quote:
In a late-night appearance, Mr Romney said his remarks were not "elegantly stated", but did not retract them.

"This is the same message I give to people in public," he said in response to the video, released by liberal investigative magazine Mother Jones.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Related
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Democrats are desperate to create a gaffe for Romney. They sneaked somebody into a fundraising dinner, to try and catch him saying something like Obama did (referring to the rednecks of Pennsylvania clinging to the bibles and guns).

This is no gaffe, it's a fact. It's not embarrassing to anybody. The only people who would be offended by it are those people who, in fact, have already decided to vote for Obama.

It's a non-event, other than to fapping zealots.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerwylie wrote:
Related

Yeah. Exactly. :lol:
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is the truth controversial?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coming from a guy who is supposedly trying to win enough hearts and minds of the american people to make him the president, I find it ridiculous. I also find it even more ridiculous to think that the 47% of americans who will vote Obama do it because they feel like victims and "pay no taxes". How about those people who will simply not vote for Romney because he's no better than Obama?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with his sentiment, but the fact of the matter is he said "pay no taxes" when in reality should have said "pay no **income** taxes**. So his number is flat out wrong (and he knows it).

His sentiment that people feel entitled to things is right on though. Try to take anything away from anybody and you get a bunch of bellyaching. Everyone wants someone to do something, they themselves just dont want to do anything.

I'm guessing that Romney is correct that many will vote for Obama simply because he will give them more things.

I really wish the Republicans had more modern moral/social bearings....
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

petrjanda wrote:
Coming from a guy who is supposedly trying to win enough hearts and minds of the american people to make him the president, I find it ridiculous. I also find it even more ridiculous to think that the 47% of americans who will vote Obama do it because they feel like victims and "pay no taxes". How about those people who will simply not vote for Romney because he's no better than Obama?


at least he is willing to state that too large of a population of USian citizens are dependent upon their government for their livelihood.

frankly, its true.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shrndegruv wrote:
I agree with his sentiment, but the fact of the matter is he said "pay no taxes" when in reality should have said "pay no **income** taxes**. So his number is flat out wrong (and he knows it).

His sentiment that people feel entitled to things is right on though. Try to take anything away from anybody and you get a bunch of bellyaching. Everyone wants someone to do something, they themselves just dont want to do anything.

I'm guessing that Romney is correct that many will vote for Obama simply because he will give them more things.

I really wish the Republicans had more modern moral/social bearings....


It is a quibble to insist "income taxes" or "federal income taxes" be explicitly stated.
It should be clear from the context.

Video of Romney's rebuttal:

http://video.insider.foxnews.com/v/1846122800001/

In the rebuttal, he say "taxes" and a few sentences later "pays no INCOME taxes."
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonnevers wrote:
petrjanda wrote:
Coming from a guy who is supposedly trying to win enough hearts and minds of the american people to make him the president, I find it ridiculous. I also find it even more ridiculous to think that the 47% of americans who will vote Obama do it because they feel like victims and "pay no taxes". How about those people who will simply not vote for Romney because he's no better than Obama?


at least he is willing to state that too large of a population of USian citizens are dependent upon their government for their livelihood.

frankly, its true.

But, high unemployment creates the appalling social conditions which makes government intervention necessary, not the other way around. If the rich want to pay less taxes they need to invest more in business. Once the market conditions for employment are good and the debt generated to pay for their resource acquisition wars, nation building contracts, bailouts, and tax breaks, etc., is paid back then taxes can be cut back without turning the US into a 3rd world nation.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I'm sure there are many people feeling so entitled, it's still odd to talk shit about poor workers not paying income taxes.
If you make so little that you get a tax credit, what are you going to do: not claim it?

(Perhaps I'm merely not the target of the statement, although I am impoverished by US standards.)
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Secretly filmed video of Mitt reveals ungarded views Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
lol

I can't decide what to laugh at. That Romney was caught, that Messina doesn't think it is true, or that he thinks Obama (or any other President) doesn't "write off" half of the nation.


++
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Secretly filmed video of Mitt reveals ungarded views Reply with quote

BonezTheGoon wrote:
pjp wrote:
lol

I can't decide what to laugh at. That Romney was caught, that Messina doesn't think it is true, or that he thinks Obama (or any other President) doesn't "write off" half of the nation.


++


Indeed. But it's another thing to be caught saying it.

Another thing, which half has obama written off? Oh yeah, those who "cling to their guns and Jesus". I hope that's not half though.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aidanjt wrote:
But, high unemployment creates the appalling social conditions which makes government intervention necessary, not the other way around. If the rich want to pay less taxes they need to invest more in business. Once the market conditions for employment are good and the debt generated to pay for their resource acquisition wars, nation building contracts, bailouts, and tax breaks, etc., is paid back then taxes can be cut back without turning the US into a 3rd world nation.

I'm sorry but I disagree with your entire assertion here. You are advocating being dependent; either dependent on the government or dependent on others for employment.

the US should be a nation of entrepreneurs and employERS not emplyEES.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonnevers wrote:
I'm sorry but I disagree with your entire assertion here. You are advocating being dependent; either dependent on the government or dependent on others for employment.

In a perfect world we would all be entirely self-sufficient, have plenty of land to ourselves to provide all our needs, and not require anyone else for anything. Unfortunately reality bites, and we realise we're social animals on limited land and resources, who need each other to specialise, survive, and grow as a species.

jonnevers wrote:
the US should be a nation of entrepreneurs and employERS not emplyEES.

You can't have entrepreneurs and employers without an abundance of employees to get non-trivial things done, and consumers to make all the work pay off.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you pay people to not work, they tend to not work.

Look at the history of "temporary unemployment benefits" being extended.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shrndegruv wrote:
I really wish the Republicans had more modern moral/social bearings....

So do I. That's the main thing that keeps me from being a Republican (although I do vote for them, about half the time, to try and keep the evil, Borg-like, 1984 Party out of office).
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Clinging to guns & religion = Obama is an elitist."

"Lazy victims who contribute nothing = Romney is just telling the truth."

:lol: :lol: :lol:


petrjanda wrote:
Coming from a guy who is supposedly trying to win enough hearts and minds of the american people to make him the president, I find it ridiculous.
I don't find it ridiculous, but rather arrogant, naive or ignorant. You win people over by convincing them you have the better ideas. Even if it is impossible to win everyone, you don't help your own cause by insulting them. The problem isn't what he said, but how he said it.

petrjanda wrote:
I also find it even more ridiculous to think that the 47% of americans who will vote Obama do it because they feel like victims and "pay no taxes".
47% isn't likely correct, but easily in the 35-40% range. The same is true in reverse, obviously for different reasons.

petrjanda wrote:
How about those people who will simply not vote for Romney because he's no better than Obama?
Probably a much smaller percentage, and likely an overlapping group.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
"Clinging to guns & religion = Obama is an elitist."

"Lazy victims who contribute nothing = Romney is just telling the truth."

Did he actually say "lazy"? I don't think so.

At any rate, I guess you've got a point.

Although, you spelled "unguarded" wrong, so you must be one of them teabaggin' morans. :P
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This whole shambles is going to be cited for decades to come as a prime example of how to f*ck up a presidential campaign.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He probably didn't say lazy. I haven't heard it that many times, but I do think it was implied. He's not even wrong, but it isn't the way to go about discussing it.

Not everyone comes from a family with the advantages he had. Not everyone is exposed to the skills he learned to lead him where he was in the private sector (not referring to education, etc). So someone who may think they are a victim doesn't benefit by him (or others) denigrating them. Discussing solutions might go a long way. And just a reminder, I don't really disagree with him.


I must have retyped the word trying to make it fit. Can't seem to blame it on any of the Mtn. Dew keys.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It will be cited for decades as "Propaganda and the Press: Catalysts of the New American Authoritarianism" (in a book banned from shelves in the U.S. and not reviewed by the New York Times).
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I enjoy democracy immensely. It is incomparably idiotic, and hence incomparably amusing." - Mencken
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The Democrats think Romney just self-destructed by pointing out, um, THEIR ENTIRE STRATEGY

"OMG, you guys, it’s all over!"

I can see why Democrats are so offended. How dare Mitt Romney say they’re dependent on the government? Only Democrats get to say they’re dependent on the government!

Has everybody already forgotten “Julia”?

... more

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