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pjp Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 16029 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:03 am Post subject: Secretly filmed video of Mitt reveals ungarded views |
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Secretly filmed video of Mitt Romney, apparently at fundraiser, reveals unguarded views
| Quote: | | “It’s shocking that a candidate for president of the United States would go behind closed doors and declare to a group of wealthy donors that half the American people view themselves as ‘victims,’ entitled to handouts, and are unwilling to take ‘personal responsibility’ for their lives,” Messina said in a statment. “It’s hard to serve as president for all Americans when you’ve disdainfully written off half the nation.” |
lol
I can't decide what to laugh at. That Romney was caught, that Messina doesn't think it is true, or that he thinks Obama (or any other President) doesn't "write off" half of the nation.
I have to think Romney never expected to win the nomination. And it is very difficult to believe he won Governor in MA. _________________ lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.
In Loving Memory
1787 - 2008 |
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notageek Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 05 Jun 2008 Posts: 78 Location: Bangalore, India
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:12 am Post subject: |
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So, it's bad for Romney?
Wait, a BBC article is on it.
| Quote: | In a late-night appearance, Mr Romney said his remarks were not "elegantly stated", but did not retract them.
"This is the same message I give to people in public," he said in response to the video, released by liberal investigative magazine Mother Jones. |
_________________ What looks like a cat, flies like a bat, brays like a donkey, and plays like a monkey? |
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tylerwylie Guru

Joined: 19 Sep 2004 Posts: 455 Location: /US/Illinois/Champaign
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:08 am Post subject: |
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Related _________________ "Government is to society, what rape is to lovemaking" |
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BoneKracker Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1488 Location: U.S.A.
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:24 am Post subject: |
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The Democrats are desperate to create a gaffe for Romney. They sneaked somebody into a fundraising dinner, to try and catch him saying something like Obama did (referring to the rednecks of Pennsylvania clinging to the bibles and guns).
This is no gaffe, it's a fact. It's not embarrassing to anybody. The only people who would be offended by it are those people who, in fact, have already decided to vote for Obama.
It's a non-event, other than to fapping zealots. _________________ Oldthinkers unbellyfeel INGSOC.
-- Headline of a document on Winston Smith's terminal in his cubicle at the Ministry of Truth, seen briefly in the background in one scene of the movie rendition of Nineteen Eighty-Four. |
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BoneKracker Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1488 Location: U.S.A.
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:25 am Post subject: |
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Yeah. Exactly.  _________________ Oldthinkers unbellyfeel INGSOC.
-- Headline of a document on Winston Smith's terminal in his cubicle at the Ministry of Truth, seen briefly in the background in one scene of the movie rendition of Nineteen Eighty-Four. |
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Muso l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2002 Posts: 655 Location: The Holy city of Honolulu
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:21 am Post subject: |
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Why is the truth controversial? _________________ If I had a dollar for every time capitalism was blamed for the problems caused by government, I'd be a fat filmmaker with a baseball cap |
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petrjanda Veteran


Joined: 05 Sep 2003 Posts: 1557 Location: Brno, Czech Republic
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:31 am Post subject: |
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Coming from a guy who is supposedly trying to win enough hearts and minds of the american people to make him the president, I find it ridiculous. I also find it even more ridiculous to think that the 47% of americans who will vote Obama do it because they feel like victims and "pay no taxes". How about those people who will simply not vote for Romney because he's no better than Obama? _________________ There is, a not-born, a not-become, a not-made, a not-compounded. If that unborn, not-become, not-made, not-compounded were not, there would be no escape from this here that is born, become, made and compounded. - Gautama Siddharta |
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shrndegruv l33t


Joined: 18 Sep 2005 Posts: 658
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:57 am Post subject: |
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I agree with his sentiment, but the fact of the matter is he said "pay no taxes" when in reality should have said "pay no **income** taxes**. So his number is flat out wrong (and he knows it).
His sentiment that people feel entitled to things is right on though. Try to take anything away from anybody and you get a bunch of bellyaching. Everyone wants someone to do something, they themselves just dont want to do anything.
I'm guessing that Romney is correct that many will vote for Obama simply because he will give them more things.
I really wish the Republicans had more modern moral/social bearings.... _________________ long is the way, and hard, that out of hell leads up to light... |
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jonnevers Veteran


Joined: 02 Jan 2003 Posts: 1585 Location: Gentoo64 land
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| petrjanda wrote: | | Coming from a guy who is supposedly trying to win enough hearts and minds of the american people to make him the president, I find it ridiculous. I also find it even more ridiculous to think that the 47% of americans who will vote Obama do it because they feel like victims and "pay no taxes". How about those people who will simply not vote for Romney because he's no better than Obama? |
at least he is willing to state that too large of a population of USian citizens are dependent upon their government for their livelihood.
frankly, its true. |
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Darth Marley Tux's lil' helper

Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 105
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| shrndegruv wrote: | I agree with his sentiment, but the fact of the matter is he said "pay no taxes" when in reality should have said "pay no **income** taxes**. So his number is flat out wrong (and he knows it).
His sentiment that people feel entitled to things is right on though. Try to take anything away from anybody and you get a bunch of bellyaching. Everyone wants someone to do something, they themselves just dont want to do anything.
I'm guessing that Romney is correct that many will vote for Obama simply because he will give them more things.
I really wish the Republicans had more modern moral/social bearings.... |
It is a quibble to insist "income taxes" or "federal income taxes" be explicitly stated.
It should be clear from the context.
Video of Romney's rebuttal:
http://video.insider.foxnews.com/v/1846122800001/
In the rebuttal, he say "taxes" and a few sentences later "pays no INCOME taxes." |
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aidanjt Veteran


Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 1101 Location: Rep. of Ireland
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnevers wrote: | | petrjanda wrote: | | Coming from a guy who is supposedly trying to win enough hearts and minds of the american people to make him the president, I find it ridiculous. I also find it even more ridiculous to think that the 47% of americans who will vote Obama do it because they feel like victims and "pay no taxes". How about those people who will simply not vote for Romney because he's no better than Obama? |
at least he is willing to state that too large of a population of USian citizens are dependent upon their government for their livelihood.
frankly, its true. |
But, high unemployment creates the appalling social conditions which makes government intervention necessary, not the other way around. If the rich want to pay less taxes they need to invest more in business. Once the market conditions for employment are good and the debt generated to pay for their resource acquisition wars, nation building contracts, bailouts, and tax breaks, etc., is paid back then taxes can be cut back without turning the US into a 3rd world nation. _________________
| juniper wrote: | | you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault. |
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nomilieu n00b


Joined: 22 Nov 2011 Posts: 24
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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While I'm sure there are many people feeling so entitled, it's still odd to talk shit about poor workers not paying income taxes.
If you make so little that you get a tax credit, what are you going to do: not claim it?
(Perhaps I'm merely not the target of the statement, although I am impoverished by US standards.) |
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BonezTheGoon Bodhisattva


Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 1376 Location: Albuquerque, NM -- birthplace of Microsoft and Gentoo
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: Secretly filmed video of Mitt reveals ungarded views |
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| pjp wrote: | lol
I can't decide what to laugh at. That Romney was caught, that Messina doesn't think it is true, or that he thinks Obama (or any other President) doesn't "write off" half of the nation. |
++ _________________
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juniper l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2004 Posts: 756 Location: EU
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Secretly filmed video of Mitt reveals ungarded views |
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| BonezTheGoon wrote: | | pjp wrote: | lol
I can't decide what to laugh at. That Romney was caught, that Messina doesn't think it is true, or that he thinks Obama (or any other President) doesn't "write off" half of the nation. |
++ |
Indeed. But it's another thing to be caught saying it.
Another thing, which half has obama written off? Oh yeah, those who "cling to their guns and Jesus". I hope that's not half though. |
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jonnevers Veteran


Joined: 02 Jan 2003 Posts: 1585 Location: Gentoo64 land
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| aidanjt wrote: | | But, high unemployment creates the appalling social conditions which makes government intervention necessary, not the other way around. If the rich want to pay less taxes they need to invest more in business. Once the market conditions for employment are good and the debt generated to pay for their resource acquisition wars, nation building contracts, bailouts, and tax breaks, etc., is paid back then taxes can be cut back without turning the US into a 3rd world nation. |
I'm sorry but I disagree with your entire assertion here. You are advocating being dependent; either dependent on the government or dependent on others for employment.
the US should be a nation of entrepreneurs and employERS not emplyEES. |
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aidanjt Veteran


Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 1101 Location: Rep. of Ireland
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnevers wrote: | | I'm sorry but I disagree with your entire assertion here. You are advocating being dependent; either dependent on the government or dependent on others for employment. |
In a perfect world we would all be entirely self-sufficient, have plenty of land to ourselves to provide all our needs, and not require anyone else for anything. Unfortunately reality bites, and we realise we're social animals on limited land and resources, who need each other to specialise, survive, and grow as a species.
| jonnevers wrote: | | the US should be a nation of entrepreneurs and employERS not emplyEES. |
You can't have entrepreneurs and employers without an abundance of employees to get non-trivial things done, and consumers to make all the work pay off. _________________
| juniper wrote: | | you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault. |
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Darth Marley Tux's lil' helper

Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 105
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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If you pay people to not work, they tend to not work.
Look at the history of "temporary unemployment benefits" being extended. |
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BoneKracker Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1488 Location: U.S.A.
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| shrndegruv wrote: | | I really wish the Republicans had more modern moral/social bearings.... |
So do I. That's the main thing that keeps me from being a Republican (although I do vote for them, about half the time, to try and keep the evil, Borg-like, 1984 Party out of office). _________________ Oldthinkers unbellyfeel INGSOC.
-- Headline of a document on Winston Smith's terminal in his cubicle at the Ministry of Truth, seen briefly in the background in one scene of the movie rendition of Nineteen Eighty-Four. |
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pjp Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 16029 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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"Clinging to guns & religion = Obama is an elitist."
"Lazy victims who contribute nothing = Romney is just telling the truth."
| petrjanda wrote: | | Coming from a guy who is supposedly trying to win enough hearts and minds of the american people to make him the president, I find it ridiculous. | I don't find it ridiculous, but rather arrogant, naive or ignorant. You win people over by convincing them you have the better ideas. Even if it is impossible to win everyone, you don't help your own cause by insulting them. The problem isn't what he said, but how he said it.
| petrjanda wrote: | | I also find it even more ridiculous to think that the 47% of americans who will vote Obama do it because they feel like victims and "pay no taxes". | 47% isn't likely correct, but easily in the 35-40% range. The same is true in reverse, obviously for different reasons.
| petrjanda wrote: | | How about those people who will simply not vote for Romney because he's no better than Obama? | Probably a much smaller percentage, and likely an overlapping group. _________________ lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.
In Loving Memory
1787 - 2008 |
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BoneKracker Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1488 Location: U.S.A.
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | "Clinging to guns & religion = Obama is an elitist."
"Lazy victims who contribute nothing = Romney is just telling the truth." |
Did he actually say "lazy"? I don't think so.
At any rate, I guess you've got a point.
Although, you spelled "unguarded" wrong, so you must be one of them teabaggin' morans.  _________________ Oldthinkers unbellyfeel INGSOC.
-- Headline of a document on Winston Smith's terminal in his cubicle at the Ministry of Truth, seen briefly in the background in one scene of the movie rendition of Nineteen Eighty-Four. |
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mcgruff Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 28 Dec 2004 Posts: 137
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:23 am Post subject: |
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This whole shambles is going to be cited for decades to come as a prime example of how to f*ck up a presidential campaign. _________________ the underlay overlay |
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pjp Administrator


Joined: 16 Apr 2002 Posts: 16029 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:38 am Post subject: |
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He probably didn't say lazy. I haven't heard it that many times, but I do think it was implied. He's not even wrong, but it isn't the way to go about discussing it.
Not everyone comes from a family with the advantages he had. Not everyone is exposed to the skills he learned to lead him where he was in the private sector (not referring to education, etc). So someone who may think they are a victim doesn't benefit by him (or others) denigrating them. Discussing solutions might go a long way. And just a reminder, I don't really disagree with him.
I must have retyped the word trying to make it fit. Can't seem to blame it on any of the Mtn. Dew keys. _________________ lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.
In Loving Memory
1787 - 2008 |
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BoneKracker Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1488 Location: U.S.A.
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:38 am Post subject: |
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It will be cited for decades as "Propaganda and the Press: Catalysts of the New American Authoritarianism" (in a book banned from shelves in the U.S. and not reviewed by the New York Times). _________________ Oldthinkers unbellyfeel INGSOC.
-- Headline of a document on Winston Smith's terminal in his cubicle at the Ministry of Truth, seen briefly in the background in one scene of the movie rendition of Nineteen Eighty-Four. |
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dmitchell Veteran


Joined: 17 May 2003 Posts: 1154 Location: Austin, Texas
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:45 am Post subject: |
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"I enjoy democracy immensely. It is incomparably idiotic, and hence incomparably amusing." - Mencken _________________ Your argument is invalid. |
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BoneKracker Veteran


Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 1488 Location: U.S.A.
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | The Democrats think Romney just self-destructed by pointing out, um, THEIR ENTIRE STRATEGY
"OMG, you guys, it’s all over!"
I can see why Democrats are so offended. How dare Mitt Romney say they’re dependent on the government? Only Democrats get to say they’re dependent on the government!
Has everybody already forgotten “Julia”?
... more |
_________________ Oldthinkers unbellyfeel INGSOC.
-- Headline of a document on Winston Smith's terminal in his cubicle at the Ministry of Truth, seen briefly in the background in one scene of the movie rendition of Nineteen Eighty-Four. |
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