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Bones McCracker
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:59 am    Post subject: Most effective campaign ad so far Reply with quote

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In the ad, voters who cast their ballots for Obama four years ago speak directly to the camera about why they would not make the same decision in 2012. “He said he was going to cut the deficit in his first term; I’ve seen zero interest in reducing spending,” one man says. “He inherited a bad situation, but he made it worse.”

The ad made an especially strong impression on registered Republicans in the Luntz focus group, but registered Democrats and participants who said that they intended to vote for Obama again also gave it high marks.

Asked what they liked about it, several cited the relatively subdued tone and the effectiveness of featuring “real people” instead of actors or politicians.

“They basically said exactly what I’m thinking,” one of the participants said of those featured in the ad.

“I can almost see myself in that ad,” another added. “It seemed the most real.”

One female voter in the ad praises Obama as a “great person” but in the same breath questions his ability to lead the country.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2012/08/26/ad_with_former_obama_backers_deemed_most_effective_115213.html
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, just as I thought. This was not a campaign ad from the Romney camp.

Their media team is n00b.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it has the same punch as the dead factory backdrop for the woe is me anti-Bane ads.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
I don't think it has the same punch as the dead factory backdrop for the woe is me anti-Bane ads.
++
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

c-span has had so many callers in recently who've been in this "i voted for obama in '08, but i won't be duped again" group that you'd almost think they were planted.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big dave wrote:
c-span has had so many callers in recently who've been in this "i voted for obama in '08, but i won't be duped again" group that you'd almost think they were planted.

same people who will be calling in "i voted for romney/obama in '12, but i won't be duped again"
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
pjp wrote:
I don't think it has the same punch as the dead factory backdrop for the woe is me anti-Bane ads.
++

If you read the article, you'll see that the point here is that they're starting to realize that the bullshit ads (like the ones about Bain, or Obama/Romney wants to kill granny) are actually not very effective, while ones that are honest and low-key, like this one, are actually more effective.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonnevers wrote:
big dave wrote:
c-span has had so many callers in recently who've been in this "i voted for obama in '08, but i won't be duped again" group that you'd almost think they were planted.

same people who will be calling in "i voted for romney/obama in '12, but i won't be duped again"

I don't know about that. I've lived through a dozen presidential elections now, and I have never seen so many people expressing bewilderment and regret over their last vote, or feeling like they were sold a bill of goods that weren't delivered.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
notageek wrote:
pjp wrote:
I don't think it has the same punch as the dead factory backdrop for the woe is me anti-Bane ads.
++

If you read the article, you'll see that the point here is that they're starting to realize that the bullshit ads (like the ones about Bain, or Obama/Romney wants to kill granny) are actually not very effective, while ones that are honest and low-key, like this one, are actually more effective.
If I have to read an article to tell me that, then clearly the ad isn't effective.

Yes, this is a good ad, better than what Romney has been showing us but not quite the sting of Bain (Bane?) ads.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notageek wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
notageek wrote:
pjp wrote:
I don't think it has the same punch as the dead factory backdrop for the woe is me anti-Bane ads.
++

If you read the article, you'll see that the point here is that they're starting to realize that the bullshit ads (like the ones about Bain, or Obama/Romney wants to kill granny) are actually not very effective, while ones that are honest and low-key, like this one, are actually more effective.
If I have to read an article to tell me that, then clearly the ad isn't effective.

Yes, this is a good ad, better than what Romney has been showing us but not quite the sting of Bain (Bane?) ads.

You still miss the point. The "sting" ads (of which Romney has plenty) are not as effective as this type. Also part of that lesson: activists who are strongly aligned with one political camp or the other are not sound judges of what is effective (unless the intent of your ad is to fire up the base).

The attack ads do more to drive the undecided away than to attract them. They backfire with the undecided, particularly if they are informed voters not vulnerable to the egregious slander so typical of such ads.

That ad about Bain is likely to cause uneducated Democrats focused on labor issues (virtually none of whom are "undecided" voters because they have a strong affinity with issues such as labor regulation, economic protectionism, religion, and race) to go, "Yeah, motherfucker! Job-killing motherfuckers!" (ignorant of the fact that they've created a hundred times as many jobs as they have "destroyed"). But that ad is not going to change anybody's mind about whom they going to vote for (the exception possibly being some truly naive people who will believe anything -- those people will vote for whomever their favorite TV channel or their friend tells them to vote for).
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
If you read the article, you'll see that the point here is that they're starting to realize that the bullshit ads (like the ones about Bain, or Obama/Romney wants to kill granny) are actually not very effective, while ones that are honest and low-key, like this one, are actually more effective.
I think the Romney ad is representative of the "characteristics" of a typical conservative campaign, and designed to appeal to such people, including independents who probably lean right, but consider & sometimes vote for Demokrats.

Conversely, I think the Obama is designed to tug at heartstrings and appeal to the comparable left independent.

I do not think either ad is going to appeal to its effective opposition.

If I wasn't aware of Obama being at least 2x as dishonest as Mitt, I'd be more compelled by the Obama ad.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My sister-in-law told me that my 16-year-old (and very naive) niece's teacher showed her whole class a recent Michael Moore documentary, and it "blew her mind". She came home practically in tears, full of all kinds of questions about how the evil Bush Administration could have been allowed to exist and why are people allowed to be Republicans. :lol:
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Knowing you, I would have expected you to drive to your niece's school and shout down the teacher.

I'm very disappointed.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
My sister-in-law told me that my 16-year-old (and very naive) niece's teacher showed her whole class a recent Michael Moore documentary, and it "blew her mind". She came home practically in tears, full of all kinds of questions about how the evil Bush Administration could have been allowed to exist and why are people allowed to be Republicans. :lol:
lol, I believe that is what they refer to as Mission Accomplished.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
My sister-in-law told me that my 16-year-old (and very naive) niece's teacher showed her whole class a recent Michael Moore documentary, and it "blew her mind". She came home practically in tears, full of all kinds of questions about how the evil Bush Administration could have been allowed to exist and why are people allowed to be Republicans. :lol:
lol, I believe that is what they refer to as Mission Accomplished.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Do you remember the Foundation Trilogy? Psychology played a central role in that. I read it in high school; I may have to read that again.

Hari Seldon would be Karl Rove, and The Mule would be David Axelrod. :lol:
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, I was just checking, and I haven't read any Asimov. I intended to read I, Robot before the movie, but didn't get around to it. I've had Foundation & something else on "some day list" for quite a while. Although, somewhat ironically, I read Silverberg's Kingdoms of the Wall.

I haven't enjoyed much of the SciFi I've read, so I haven't made reading more a priority.

Clarke, Zahn (Star Wars), Hubbard, some other stuff I'm not thinking of. :two thumbs down:

Heinlein's The Puppet Masters was pretty good, but very dated, which made it enough of a distraction that I haven't pursued his other stuff.

Oh, HGTTG. Not a bad start, but really kind of rambled on without much point after the first book. I didn't finish it. I'm pretty sure I made it through 3.

More recently I've read some of Elizabeth Moon's SciFi (after reading her Fantasy series). I've liked it, but it is more 'adventure in space,' so not often what others want in their SciFi. Which is fine, as I read for characters first, then milieu.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ever read Dune?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've tried, at least twice. It is somewhat interesting, but the writing style is awful. One of these days I plan to read at least the first book, but I've got a lot of stuff on the shelf, so that may wait until retirement :D
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
I've tried, at least twice. It is somewhat interesting, but the writing style is awful. One of these days I plan to read at least the first book, but I've got a lot of stuff on the shelf, so that may wait until retirement :D

Yeah, okay. If you couldn't stomach Dune, then science fiction is not for you.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. I wouldn't have discarded a genre based on a writing style. I wouldn't want to read anything in that style.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BoneKracker wrote:
pjp wrote:
BoneKracker wrote:
My sister-in-law told me that my 16-year-old (and very naive) niece's teacher showed her whole class a recent Michael Moore documentary, and it "blew her mind". She came home practically in tears, full of all kinds of questions about how the evil Bush Administration could have been allowed to exist and why are people allowed to be Republicans. :lol:
lol, I believe that is what they refer to as Mission Accomplished.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Do you remember the Foundation Trilogy? Psychology played a central role in that. I read it in high school; I may have to read that again.

Hari Seldon would be Karl Rove, and The Mule would be David Axelrod. :lol:


Spoiler alert











And the second foundation is the Illuminati?
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Interesting. I wouldn't have discarded a genre based on a writing style. I wouldn't want to read anything in that style.


I just reread Dune and enjoyed it. But I haven't been able to get into Dune Messiah. I think there is only so much of Frank Hebert's intensity that I can take at a time.

Dune is a seminal work in the genre but there is plenty other lighter fair that is quite enjoyable too.

Michael Crichton Jurassic Park Sphere Andromeda Strain he is really good at making hard sci-fi into light reading. In fact start here.

Phillip K Dick Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep or find a collection of his short stories. Some of it is weird though.

Asimov Robot Series (but you can probably skip the nemesis stuff) Foundation (Which Hitchhikers is in many ways a spoof of)
He also wrote some great nonfiction on scientific topics. Atom for example.

Arthur C Clarke Space Odyssey series

William Gibson Neuromancer is classic cyberpunk

Heinlein Starship Troopers was interesting and a good read but more of a futuristic treatise on some sort of political philosophy that I couldn't even begin to describe.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

These were also good:

Manifold Time Stephen Baxter
Manifold Space "
Manifold Origin "

Anathem Neal Stephenson

Illyum Dan Simmons
Olympos "
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, the iromny.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Oh, the iromny.

haha

obama failed to stop romney's buddies from exporting jobs to china!
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