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pitcrawler
Apprentice
Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 150
Location: Oklahoma, USA
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 Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:46 pm Post subject: Obama must have listened |
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He's reduced the price of gas for almost all of this month. (Source)
What's that you say? Obama's not responsible for US oil prices?  |
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Muso
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 655
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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¿Qué?
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notageek
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 78
Location: Bangalore, India
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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Then we must be subsidizing America. Every other month there has been hikes in petrol prices.
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Muso
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 655
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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Well, look at the year long trend. Here
For those of us in the islands, It's definitely getting worse.
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pitcrawler
Apprentice
Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 150
Location: Oklahoma, USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, the US has the lowest fuel tax rate in the world, except Mexico who apparently a negative tax (A government subsidy?)
Source:Excel chart as HTML (Scroll down a bit)
Americans don't know how good they've got it and yet many of them do nothing but complain. |
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Muso
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 655
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| pitcrawler wrote: | | Americans don't know how good they've got it and yet many of them do nothing but complain. |
Ah yes. We're only getting gently raped, we should be grateful 
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If I had a dollar for every time capitalism was blamed for the problems caused by government, I'd be a fat filmmaker with a baseball cap |
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sts
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 97
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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You be quiet. We accept no complaints from people living in paradise. Also since you're on a small island you don't have far to drive.  |
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pitcrawler
Apprentice
Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 150
Location: Oklahoma, USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Muso wrote: | | pitcrawler wrote: | | Americans don't know how good they've got it and yet many of them do nothing but complain. |
Ah yes. We're only getting gently raped, we should be grateful |
Yeah, so stop complaining or move to Mexico. 
And there's no way on earth the US will get it's national debt down without increasing taxes. Learn to like it, or learn to grow money on trees. Oh wait, you can just print more. |
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Muso
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 655
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| pitcrawler wrote: | | Muso wrote: | | pitcrawler wrote: | | Americans don't know how good they've got it and yet many of them do nothing but complain. |
Ah yes. We're only getting gently raped, we should be grateful |
Yeah, so stop complaining or move to Mexico. |
Japan had ridiculous tax on gasoline. In the 90s it took close to $100 to fill up a large sedan.
| pitcrawler wrote: | | And there's no way on earth the US will get it's national debt down without increasing taxes. Learn to like it, or learn to grow money on trees. Oh wait, you can just print more. |
Spending is the problem. It doesn't matter how much tax they collect when it gets pissed away on stupidity like giving guns to Mexican drug cartels, lavish Las Vegas conventions with mind readers and commemorative coins, billions dumped into failing companies like Solyndra, bailing out union thugs, taking over GM, numerous vacations on the tax payer dime, having the SecDef fly home to California every single weekend with a military entourage, etc etc etc
If they didn't blow money on stupid shit like that, we wouldn't be having a debt crisis. This kind of nonsense has been happening for years, and Obama's simply taken it to a whole new level.
The problem is, was, and will always be the reckless spending by the idiots in government.
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BoneKracker
Veteran
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1480
Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:35 pm Post subject: Re: Obama must have listened |
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| pitcrawler wrote: | He's reduced the price of gas for almost all of this month. (Source)
What's that you say? Obama's not responsible for US oil prices? |
ZOMG short term fluctuations are meaningless in a long-term trend. If you knew anything about climate change, you would know this.
Oops wrong thread. Wrong login too.
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Oldthinkers unbellyfeel INGSOC.
-- Headline of a document on Winston Smith's terminal in his cubicle at the Ministry of Truth, seen briefly in the background in one scene of the movie rendition of Nineteen Eighty-Four. |
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pitcrawler
Apprentice
Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 150
Location: Oklahoma, USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Muso wrote: | | pitcrawler wrote: | | And there's no way on earth the US will get it's national debt down without increasing taxes. Learn to like it, or learn to grow money on trees. Oh wait, you can just print more. |
Spending is the problem. It doesn't matter how much tax they collect when it gets pissed away on stupidity like giving guns to Mexican drug cartels, lavish Las Vegas conventions with mind readers and commemorative coins, billions dumped into failing companies like Solyndra, bailing out union thugs, taking over GM, numerous vacations on the tax payer dime, having the SecDef fly home to California every single weekend with a military entourage, etc etc etc
If they didn't blow money on stupid shit like that, we wouldn't be having a debt crisis. This kind of nonsense has been happening for years, and Obama's simply taken it to a whole new level.
The problem is, was, and will always be the reckless spending by the idiots in government. |
I know spending is the problem, but there's no way you can cut spending enough without raising taxes, barring some miracle. And talking about the last few months' news stories adds up to very little compared to the real drains on the budget. Military spending being the biggest. |
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pitcrawler
Apprentice
Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 150
Location: Oklahoma, USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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Here's the real reason US gas has to be taxed.
| http://news.yahoo.com/history-u-oil-subsidies-back-nearly-century-215500548.html wrote: | The American Chemical Society cites a report by Double Bottom Line Venture Capital that explains how the oil industry has reaped benefits from subsidies. From 1918 to 2009, the average annual subsidy was $4.86 billion. By comparison, the nuclear energy industry gets around $3.5 billion per year.
When the study adjusted for inflation to 2009 dollars, the oil and gas industry received subsidies amounting to $1.8 billion per year in the first 15 years of the fledgling industry. The American Coalition for Ethanol estimates that when combined with state and local government aid to large oil companies, subsidies amount to anywhere from $133.8 billion to $280.8 billion annually from all sources of taxpayer aid that goes to the oil and gas industry. |
I'm sure you're all happy with that since it's barely mentioned by the regulars on here.
Your tax money is paying your country's oil companies hundreds of billions annually so they can export your country's oil for a higher price on the global market, at the expense of your own country's gas prices. They take with one hand and take with the other. All the while lobbying your government with the same money they took from you, i order to make the government give you more of your money.  |
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BoneKracker
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Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1480
Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| pitcrawler wrote: | | I know spending is the problem, but there's no way you can cut spending enough without raising taxes, barring some miracle. |
It doesn't work that way. It is spending that requires taxes to support it. You don't have to raise taxes to cut spending. You have to raise taxes to raise spending.
The problem is that we raised spending without raising taxes. So, to close that deficit, we either have to give up that spending, raise taxes to support it, or some combination thereof.
The roadblock is that neither Democrats nor Republicans are willing to compromise enough find a mutually tolerable "some combination thereof", and both are blaming the other.
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Oldthinkers unbellyfeel INGSOC.
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BoneKracker
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Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1480
Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| pitcrawler wrote: | | The American Coalition for Ethanol estimates that when combined with state and local government aid to large oil companies, subsidies amount to anywhere from $133.8 billion to $280.8 billion annually from all sources of taxpayer aid that goes to the oil and gas industry. |
Could you point us to a breakdown of that estimate, or some analysis or data that supports that claim?
Are we to believe, based on this whining, that the ethanol industry is not even more heavily subsidized, proportionally speaking? What about the Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit (VEETC), which is a tax credit of 45 cents per gallon of ethanol? That's a lot of money, when you consider the billions of gallons involved.
There is a reason governments subsidize energy production; it is the cornerstone of all economic activity. They don't mention that petroleum consumption is heavily, and increasingly, taxed. An additional 18 cents per gallon tax on petroleum was just approved to partially fund the latest highways bill.
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Oldthinkers unbellyfeel INGSOC.
-- Headline of a document on Winston Smith's terminal in his cubicle at the Ministry of Truth, seen briefly in the background in one scene of the movie rendition of Nineteen Eighty-Four.
Last edited by BoneKracker on Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Muso
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 655
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| pitcrawler wrote: | | Military spending being the biggest. |
Wrong.
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If I had a dollar for every time capitalism was blamed for the problems caused by government, I'd be a fat filmmaker with a baseball cap |
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pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16028
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:55 pm Post subject: Re: Obama must have listened |
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| pitcrawler wrote: | He's reduced the price of gas for almost all of this month. (Source)
What's that you say? Obama's not responsible for US oil prices? :? |
After whacking bin Laden, he's been busy pumping gas to lower the prices.
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BoneKracker
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Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 1480
Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:59 pm Post subject: Re: Obama must have listened |
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| pjp wrote: | | pitcrawler wrote: | He's reduced the price of gas for almost all of this month. (Source)
What's that you say? Obama's not responsible for US oil prices? |
After whacking bin Laden, he's been busy pumping gas to lower the prices. |
Prices are still ridiculously high, especially in Blue States such as mine. Unemployment is still high too.
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Oldthinkers unbellyfeel INGSOC.
-- Headline of a document on Winston Smith's terminal in his cubicle at the Ministry of Truth, seen briefly in the background in one scene of the movie rendition of Nineteen Eighty-Four. |
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tylerwylie
Guru
Joined: 19 Sep 2004
Posts: 455
Location: /US/Illinois/Champaign
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 12:01 am Post subject: Re: Obama must have listened |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | pjp wrote: | | pitcrawler wrote: | He's reduced the price of gas for almost all of this month. (Source)
What's that you say? Obama's not responsible for US oil prices? |
After whacking bin Laden, he's been busy pumping gas to lower the prices. |
Prices are still ridiculously high, especially in Blue States such as mine. Unemployment is still high too. |
Not compared to real money like gold and silver, going by those gas is still relatively inexpensive.
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BoneKracker
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Joined: 14 Mar 2006
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Location: U.S.A.
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 12:10 am Post subject: Re: Obama must have listened |
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| tylerwylie wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | | pjp wrote: | | pitcrawler wrote: | He's reduced the price of gas for almost all of this month. (Source)
What's that you say? Obama's not responsible for US oil prices? |
After whacking bin Laden, he's been busy pumping gas to lower the prices. |
Prices are still ridiculously high, especially in Blue States such as mine. Unemployment is still high too. |
Not compared to real money like gold and silver, going by those gas is still relatively inexpensive. |
Interesting thought. I think precious metal is high mainly due to people betting their currency is going to collapse, and speculators capitalizing on their perception such behavior will continue.
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Oldthinkers unbellyfeel INGSOC.
-- Headline of a document on Winston Smith's terminal in his cubicle at the Ministry of Truth, seen briefly in the background in one scene of the movie rendition of Nineteen Eighty-Four. |
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pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 16028
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 2:54 am Post subject: Re: Obama must have listened |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | Prices are still ridiculously high, especially in Blue States such as mine. Unemployment is still high too. |
Yeah, but he's one man against an international organized government crime syndicate. Sheesh. Some people expect miracles.
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lolgov. 'cause where we're going, you don't have civil liberties.
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dmitchell
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Joined: 17 May 2003
Posts: 1154
Location: Austin, Texas
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 3:13 am Post subject: Re: Obama must have listened |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | ZOMG short term fluctuations are meaningless in a long-term trend. If you knew anything about climate change, you would know this.
Oops wrong thread. Wrong login too. :? |
That was funny. :lol:
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Your argument is invalid. |
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pitcrawler
Apprentice
Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 150
Location: Oklahoma, USA
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Muso wrote: | | pitcrawler wrote: | | Military spending being the biggest. |
Wrong. |
http://www.usfederalbudget.us/federal_budget_fy13rs12012n_es1li1n#usgs302 *shrug*
Even if you dispute that, the military budget still needs to be reduced, and apparently is being.
Last edited by pitcrawler on Tue May 01, 2012 3:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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pitcrawler
Apprentice
Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 150
Location: Oklahoma, USA
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | pitcrawler wrote: | | The American Coalition for Ethanol estimates that when combined with state and local government aid to large oil companies, subsidies amount to anywhere from $133.8 billion to $280.8 billion annually from all sources of taxpayer aid that goes to the oil and gas industry. |
Could you point us to a breakdown of that estimate, or some analysis or data that supports that claim?
Are we to believe, based on this whining, that the ethanol industry is not even more heavily subsidized, proportionally speaking? What about the Volumetric Ethanol Excise Tax Credit (VEETC), which is a tax credit of 45 cents per gallon of ethanol? That's a lot of money, when you consider the billions of gallons involved. |
Here (Lists all sources) It shows a long list of subsidies for both the Ethanol industry and the oil industry.
| BoneKracker wrote: | | There is a reason governments subsidize energy production; it is the cornerstone of all economic activity. They don't mention that petroleum consumption is heavily, and increasingly, taxed. An additional 18 cents per gallon tax on petroleum was just approved to partially fund the latest highways bill. |
Governments subsidize energy production with what? Tax money. You seem to be trying to be separating government money and tax money. It's the same thing. Why should it be subsidized at all? Do you not believe in a free market economy? Why tax an industry then give the tax money back to the industry? Does this mean I can open a store, charge tax on what I sell then get the government to give me that tax money back?
To me, if you're happy with oil industry subsidies, you're happy with the national debt. |
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pitcrawler
Apprentice
Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 150
Location: Oklahoma, USA
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | pitcrawler wrote: | | I know spending is the problem, but there's no way you can cut spending enough without raising taxes, barring some miracle. |
It doesn't work that way. It is spending that requires taxes to support it. You don't have to raise taxes to cut spending. You have to raise taxes to raise spending.
The problem is that we raised spending without raising taxes. So, to close that deficit, we either have to give up that spending, raise taxes to support it, or some combination thereof. |
What I'm saying is that the third option you listed is the only one that will work. |
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Muso
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 655
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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Here you go.
What you should try to understand is, defense is constitutionally mandated while none of the entitlements are. So you have a federal budget that has ballooned into a monstrosity of, essentially, unconstitutionally mandated spending. The interest payments on the debt, because of those programs, will be taking more out of the pocket of the taxpayer than defense unless these programs are honestly fixed... no more demagoguing the issue by the unions and the left. They either get drastically altered or the nation ends.
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